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  1. #1
    Odan Juvegirl's Avatar
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    Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    As salaamualeikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu,

    Every so often I see someone post something against divorce and then someone else will come back saying that divorce is not haraam and depending on the circumstances it is fine to do. I recall ahadith about the punishments for divorce when it's done for the wrong reasons, but then I recall others where people divorced simply because they wanted to.

    Since this issue comes up in different ways on different threads, I thought I'd ask the group to give examples of when a man or a woman asking for divorce is allowed in Islam, when, if ever, it is forbidden and when, if ever, it is preferred. Sources always welcome

    Jzkhr.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    I think people get confused.

    Men have the right to Talaq, they can divorce their wives without needing a Shariah reason.

    Women can ask a judge for a divorce if a man fall short of his duties to her or she can just offer the man something to release her from the marriage.



    Talaq: This form of divorce is the sole right of the husband whereby he pronounces the word divorce, talaq or any other similar word (in any language) to establish a divorce. No one may deprive him of this right given that he has been awarded such a right by God. This right belongs only to the husband and moreover, he does not need the consent or approval of any one, including his wife. Therefore, a woman divorcing her husband is Islamically incorrect and is invalid as a female has no such recourse to such a right, although she may request the conclusion of the marriage through other means. Similarly, an Islamic judge cannot issue a divorce but he can (once being recognised as an Islamic judge) issue a faskh (marriage dissolution).
    Khul’: It is a divorce issued by the husband in exchange of money. It happens when the wife requests her husband to divorce her, but he refuses unless she returns her dowry. Again, it is the right of the husband and is conditional to his approval.
    Faskh; it is a marriage dissolution issued by a judge in response to a request by the wife and normally takes place against the will of the husband. However, the judge has to be appointed either by the leader of the Muslims, or by the Muslim community, or at least recognized as being an Islamic judge by the vast majority of the Muslim community. Merely being an imam neither suffices nor authorises him to dissolve marriages.
    Source

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    میرے دل کا نور .mirror.'s Avatar
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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam



    Sis, check the other thread you made on divorce, I think last month.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam



    A woman has the right to seek divorce, the only difference is some conditions have to be met, nonetheless thats still a right given to her by Allah

    Sis Juve, theres many reasons for divorce...addiction, falling short in his islamic obligatory Islamic duties, not supporting his family etc..

    I also remember in one of my classes that if you cannot get on with your husband or hes not to your "liking" then you can free yourself through khula as per this incident:

    Reported by Ibn ‘Abbaas, in which it says that the wife of Thaabit ibn Qays came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I do not blame Thaabit ibn Qays for any defect in his character or his religious commitment, but I would hate to commit an act of kufr when I am a Muslim.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Will you give him back his garden [which he had given as mahr]?” She said, “Yes.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said (to Thaabit), “Accept the garden, and divorce her once.”
    Last edited by Sam_87; 14-12-11 at 06:23 PM.
    Allahumma innaa na'udhu bika min an nushrika bika shai-an na'lamuh; wa nastaghfiruka limaa laa na'lam

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_87 View Post


    A woman has the right to seek divorce, the only difference is some conditions have to be met, nonetheless thats still a right given to her by Allah

    Sis Juve, theres many reasons for divorce...addiction, falling short in his islamic obligatory Islamic duties, not supporting his family etc..

    I also remember in one of my classes that if you cannot get on with your husband or hes not to your "liking" then you can free yourself through khula as per this incident:

    Reported by Ibn ‘Abbaas, in which it says that the wife of Thaabit ibn Qays came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I do not blame Thaabit ibn Qays for any defect in his character or his religious commitment, but I would hate to commit an act of kufr when I am a Muslim.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, “Will you give him back his garden [which he had given as mahr]?” She said, “Yes.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said (to Thaabit), “Accept the garden, and divorce her once.”
    A woman has a right to seek divorce - not to divorce.
    There is a big difference.
    Look at the incident, it was Man that divorced the woman.
    Nowadays sisters seem to think they can divorce their husbands when they get bored of them.
    Besides, if you look at what the Ulema have said about this incident they go into the reasons why She (ra) asked for divorce.

    See post #2 which describes the 3 types of divorce.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuIbraheem. View Post
    A woman has a right to seek divorce - not to divorce.
    There is a big difference.
    Look at the incident, it was Man that divorced the woman.
    Nowadays sisters seem to think they can divorce their husbands when they get bored of them.
    Besides, if you look at what the Ulema have said about this incident they go into the reasons why She (ra) asked for divorce.

    See post #2 which describes the 3 types of divorce.
    I've also heard this hadith interpreted as the woman might have had a very good reason to want to be away from her husband, but because of the manners of the sahabiyat of not complaining about their husband, she did not say anything against him nor did the the Prophet saaws ask for the details. This preserves the dignity of everyone involved. Allah alim.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    I understand the difference, but the outcome is still divorce if Allah wills for it. And i'd hate to think a sister would seek divorce out of boredom
    Allahumma innaa na'udhu bika min an nushrika bika shai-an na'lamuh; wa nastaghfiruka limaa laa na'lam

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_87 View Post
    I understand the difference, but the outcome is still divorce if Allah wills for it. And i'd hate to think a sister would seek divorce out of boredom
    Sisters ask for divorce for all sorts of reasons nowadays, some because they think the grass is greener elsewhere or because they are better off financially etc.

    These are the sisters that abuse the power given to them by the western states they live in to oppress their husbands and take most of their wealth.

    Gone are the days when women would try hard to save their marriages, the western world has tempted them with the material wealth of the dunya.

    Sadly I don't think it would be any different if the shoe was on the other foot and it was the men that were better off.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    If the husband is not practising or stops practising islam.

    He does not provide for her and his kids.

    Beats his wife mercilessly daily for no real reason.

    If he commits sins openly without any shame or fear of Allah.

    Does not fufill the wife's intimate rights.

    Thats all i can think of right now.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    No sane person seeks divorce if they're happy or content with their marriage- there's always a reason.

    Women are emotional beings, and I don't mean in that in the way most guys would like to think. I mean it in the sense that they seek much more from companionship than men do emotionally. And a guy can do everything right, fulfill every Islamic obligation there is but not 'connect' with their spouse.

    Ultimately, what some may argue isn't a 'legitimate' reason in itself becomes one when the consequences result in unhappiness, bitterness or even depression. Surely the fact that her emotional/psychological well-being is being compromised, is a good enough a reason?

    Having said that, women's more 'emotional' nature also results in them being the gender willing to sacrifice it all for the well-being of her household/children. Even if it means staying with an insensitive, cold-hearted or even abusive brute. They'll being willing to put up with a lot more than most men will ever will.
    Last edited by mizfissy815; 14-12-11 at 09:26 PM.
    "The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived notions, opinion, and by prejudice." - Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    An uncle asking his nephew to leave his wife to make the aunty happy...before everyone scoffs as the thought of it, this has actually happened.
    Not sure whether this is islamically correct but did occur.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuIbraheem. View Post

    These are the sisters that abuse the power given to them by the western states they live in to oppress their husbands and take most of their wealth.

    And the power that men have to simply say they want a divorce and leave? Taking all the wealth with them, leaving the woman stranded. (except for 3 months)

    Is there not men who abuse that power?

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Juvegirl View Post
    As salaamualeikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu,

    Every so often I see someone post something against divorce and then someone else will come back saying that divorce is not haraam and depending on the circumstances it is fine to do. I recall ahadith about the punishments for divorce when it's done for the wrong reasons, but then I recall others where people divorced simply because they wanted to.

    Since this issue comes up in different ways on different threads, I thought I'd ask the group to give examples of when a man or a woman asking for divorce is allowed in Islam, when, if ever, it is forbidden and when, if ever, it is preferred. Sources always welcome

    Jzkhr.
    Wa aleikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu, UKthi,

    I'm Yet to see a Muslim state that Divorce is Haraam ...

    this is known as a Red Herring in logical argumentation ...

    what we have is arguments for and against Divorce, but No Prohibition.

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    "O followers of Muhammad! By Allah, if you knew what I know, you would weep much and laugh little."

    [Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol. 8, Hadith no. 627]

    May Allah ta'ala join our beloved akhi Uncle-Umar (may Allah ta'ala have mercy upon him) with the Shuhada and grant him the Highest station in Jannatul Firdaus

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mich View Post
    And the power that men have to simply say they want a divorce and leave? Taking all the wealth with them, leaving the woman stranded. (except for 3 months)

    Is there not men who abuse that power?
    Of course, and there are Women who abuse their position too ...

    regards
    http://www.ilovepalestine.com/campai...imesinGaza.gif

    "O followers of Muhammad! By Allah, if you knew what I know, you would weep much and laugh little."

    [Sahih Al-Bukhari, Vol. 8, Hadith no. 627]

    May Allah ta'ala join our beloved akhi Uncle-Umar (may Allah ta'ala have mercy upon him) with the Shuhada and grant him the Highest station in Jannatul Firdaus

    Ameen


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    الوقت من ذهب Sam_87's Avatar
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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Abda View Post
    An uncle asking his nephew to leave his wife to make the aunty happy...before everyone scoffs as the thought of it, this has actually happened.
    Not sure whether this is islamically correct but did occur.
    I say that such a woman has been blessed to be free from a silly, coward of a husband
    Allahumma innaa na'udhu bika min an nushrika bika shai-an na'lamuh; wa nastaghfiruka limaa laa na'lam

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Mich View Post
    And the power that men have to simply say they want a divorce and leave? Taking all the wealth with them, leaving the woman stranded. (except for 3 months)

    Is there not men who abuse that power?
    Not stranded. She goes back where she was before marrying him. She wasn't on the street before the marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam_87 View Post
    I say that such a woman has been blessed to be free from a silly, coward of a husband
    She didn't say what the husband's response was, though. =/ Only that the uncle asked him.

    But, I don't get why the uncle would want to make the aunty happy? What does she gain from the divorce?

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by .mirror. View Post
    Not stranded. She goes back where she was before marrying him. She wasn't on the street before the marriage.
    If it is not a big deal, why not let women have that same power... get a divorce by just saying we are now divorced?

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    She can do so, if she includes that in the contract.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    It's because in an Islamic Marriage when a man marries a woman he takes the responsibility of feeding her, clothing her, protecting her etc.
    On top of that he pays her a mahr.
    The man has the most to lose if he divorces so he will think carefully before doing it.
    It is Allah who has given the right of divorce, Muslims are not like those that came before, we dont go around changing the laws of Allah for the sake of Gender equality.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    ^ That doesn't make much sense.

    The man has only the mahr to lose which he has no right to anyway unless the woman offers it in return for divorce. Are you considering the responsibility as you said of feeding, clothing and protecting as a reason to remain married?

    A man considering divorce as two choices, one where he's still has all those responsibilities and one where he doesn't. Using your reasoning, it gives a man even less of an incentive to 'think carefully' if it means he free of that burden. He would have the least to lose.
    "The discovery of truth is prevented more effectively, not by the false appearance of things present and which mislead into error, not directly by weakness of the reasoning powers, but by preconceived notions, opinion, and by prejudice." - Arthur Schopenhauer

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    From what I have read, men have that right because women are more likely to take such a decision with their hearts, not mind. In other words, they might become over come by their emotions. Men are most likely to avoid that.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by .mirror. View Post
    Not stranded. She goes back where she was before marrying him. She wasn't on the street before the marriage.



    She didn't say what the husband's response was, though. =/ Only that the uncle asked him.

    But, I don't get why the uncle would want to make the aunty happy? What does she gain from the divorce?
    Uncle asked him to leave his wife...he did! I thought I had written that in my original post.
    The uncle obviously wanted to keep this man's aunty happy as she was the uncle's wife...sorry if i confused you. The aunty disliked this girl from the offset and found the weaklink in realising that the man would always obey the uncle. win-win for uncle/aunty, lose-lose for wife.
    Last edited by Abda; 01-01-12 at 12:07 PM.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Any reason for the dislike?

    I mean she could have a good reason, like she is not practicing.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by .mirror. View Post
    Any reason for the dislike?

    I mean she could have a good reason, like she is not practicing.
    Apologies if I came across that way, I can be a bit blunt but just wanted to answer ur question re the aunty situation.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by mizfissy815 View Post
    ^ That doesn't make much sense.

    The man has only the mahr to lose which he has no right to anyway unless the woman offers it in return for divorce. Are you considering the responsibility as you said of feeding, clothing and protecting as a reason to remain married?

    A man considering divorce as two choices, one where he's still has all those responsibilities and one where he doesn't. Using your reasoning, it gives a man even less of an incentive to 'think carefully' if it means he free of that burden. He would have the least to lose.

    Maybe I don't make much sense and it is my shortcomings:

    Here is what I am saying in someone else's words:
    One of the most natural and logical ways to help maintain a successful marriage is to let the man have more control over the divorce process than the woman because it is the man who is financially obliged to take care of his wife, household and family, and has ultimate responsibility of their welfare. Therefore, he must rationally assess the situation, grave consequences, and huge financial and emotional loss that will result from a divorce. The husband will lose the dowry he spent for the marriage, and will have to pay the alimony and child support, as well as any newly acquired expenses from a new marriage on top of that. Thus, with all these considerations, he will not act just out of quick anger, fickleness or passing emotion.

    A man is more capable - at least theoretically - of controlling his flitting emotions and personal reactions when upset about the smaller issues in life, especially in terms of disputes with his wife. Divorce should never be a quick reaction for some suffering, misunderstandings, or differences of viewpoints, but only as a last resort and final solution when life becomes dangerously problematic and intolerable, wherein both spouse are afraid that they will not be able to abide by the limits set by Allah and His Prophet about respectable behavior with one another.
    source

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuIbraheem. View Post
    Maybe I don't make much sense and it is my shortcomings:

    Here is what I am saying in someone else's words:


    source
    Don't necessarily think the man has most to lose. When I got divorced, my husband's family paid my mahr of £50...yes that much! - My father had not asked for much in the nikkah since the groom didnt have anything personally as all pakistan land was under uncle's name.
    Anyway that's all I got and on top of that they asked for gold back too - which wasnt worth much either, yet i have been left paying a hefty divorce bill here in UK. There is no fairness in this world

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Abda View Post
    Don't necessarily think the man has most to lose. When I got divorced, my husband's family paid my mahr of £50...yes that much! - My father had not asked for much in the nikkah since the groom didnt have anything personally as all pakistan land was under uncle's name.
    Anyway that's all I got and on top of that they asked for gold back too - which wasnt worth much either, yet i have been left paying a hefty divorce bill here in UK. There is no fairness in this world
    If a man issues Talaq then he would not be able to take back the gold etc and he would still have to pay the maintenance etc.

    Anyway, yours is a situation that is against the norm.

    My ex divorced me, she took all the stuff we had gathered in the past 10 years and just gave me back some of my clothes and a £100 laptop.
    Initially she was also taking £680 a month child maintenance from me as she denied me all access to my children, now its down to £500 (on top of all her benefits and council housing of course).
    She has also filed for half of my house (which she never paid a penny towards) in the Civil divorce.
    I have also been left with thousands of pounds of legal fees (which were used to get contact with my children), she had no legal fees as that was covered by the generous tax payer.

    This is the normal situation in a divorce in this country , the woman takes everything and leaves the man on the street or renting a dingy room somewhere because that is all he can afford.

    A lot of women would call that fair,

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuIbraheem. View Post
    If a man issues Talaq then he would not be able to take back the gold etc and he would still have to pay the maintenance etc.

    Anyway, yours is a situation that is against the norm.

    A lot of women would call that fair,
    When my parents (non-Muslims) divorced, my mother took her jewlery and whatever furniture had been left to her by a beloved uncle in his will, her clothes and her suitcases. That's it. Even though she contributed both financially to the home and of course, to the upkeep. While this isn't the "norm" I don't think your situation is either. All situations occur, but I think the norm is more equitable.

    Even if a woman doesn't contribute financially to a home, she has in all likelihood contributed to the maintenance and upkeep. However the rest of the BS you've gone through with your ex-wife is ridiculous. It doesn't sound like she's stopped to think of the children even once. I wonder if she's Muslim...?

    I wouldn't want my husband and I to divorce, but if we did, I would feel really cheated if he kept everything. Much of our furniture I bought and paid for from my own money entirely, or contributed to the purchase equally. And as far as going back to where she came from before getting married, I rented an apartment with my furniture before we married, I would have no where to go if my husband and I divorced. My father is dead, my mother is dying and my brothers are in no position to take me in. He at least could live with family.

    Are there allowances for coming to your own agreements in Islam or are the rules hard and fast? Because I feel relatively certain my husband would be happy to leave the apartment and much of the contents to me if such an event were to take place.
    "Do not let your hatred of a people incite you to aggression." Qur'an 5:2

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    I think the idea is if a woman is financially dependent on a man, staying home providing all of the childcare and taking care of the house, her contributions are financially valuable. She enabled him to work full time paying for everything while she took care of the other household responsibilities. If she were not there, he would need to hire someone to do those things otherwise he wouldn't be able to work full time, so because of that she deserves some of the money and property.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by Juvegirl View Post
    When my parents (non-Muslims) divorced, my mother took her jewlery and whatever furniture had been left to her by a beloved uncle in his will, her clothes and her suitcases. That's it. Even though she contributed both financially to the home and of course, to the upkeep. While this isn't the "norm" I don't think your situation is either. All situations occur, but I think the norm is more equitable.

    Even if a woman doesn't contribute financially to a home, she has in all likelihood contributed to the maintenance and upkeep. However the rest of the BS you've gone through with your ex-wife is ridiculous. It doesn't sound like she's stopped to think of the children even once. I wonder if she's Muslim...?

    I wouldn't want my husband and I to divorce, but if we did, I would feel really cheated if he kept everything. Much of our furniture I bought and paid for from my own money entirely, or contributed to the purchase equally. And as far as going back to where she came from before getting married, I rented an apartment with my furniture before we married, I would have no where to go if my husband and I divorced. My father is dead, my mother is dying and my brothers are in no position to take me in. He at least could live with family.

    Are there allowances for coming to your own agreements in Islam or are the rules hard and fast? Because I feel relatively certain my husband would be happy to leave the apartment and much of the contents to me if such an event were to take place.
    Yes she is Muslim one that reads Quran every day, prays 5 times a day and wears hijaab and Jelbab , but she refused to follow Shariah stating that 'Shariah is to follow the law of the land that you are in ' - and the law of this land entitles her to all this.

    As for the children, she says she is doing it for them, she can afford to give them a better life now and buy them clothes exclusively from GAP, Next and other semi designer shops instead of the average shops where I used to shop.

    The Shaykh from the Shariah council said it was normal for this situation to occur, where women have been given the power to take what they can from their husband they usually do so outside the limits of Allah (swt).

    I know a few people who have been through divorce and most of the men have been done over.

    As for Islam, yes of course he can choose to leave you whatever he likes if you divorce.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuIbraheem. View Post
    Yes she is Muslim one that reads Quran every day, prays 5 times a day and wears hijaab and Jelbab , but she refused to follow Shariah stating that 'Shariah is to follow the law of the land that you are in ' - and the law of this land entitles her to all this.

    As for the children, she says she is doing it for them, she can afford to give them a better life now and buy them clothes exclusively from GAP, Next and other semi designer shops instead of the average shops where I used to shop.

    The Shaykh from the Shariah council said it was normal for this situation to occur, where women have been given the power to take what they can from their husband they usually do so outside the limits of Allah (swt).

    I know a few people who have been through divorce and most of the men have been done over.

    As for Islam, yes of course he can choose to leave you whatever he likes if you divorce.
    She is the mother of your children, if you are going to give it to her anyways (by force) why not give it to her freely for the sake of Allah, seek His reward for it and consider it charity.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by inprogress View Post
    She is the mother of your children, if you are going to give it to her anyways (by force) why not give it to her freely for the sake of Allah, seek His reward for it and consider it charity.
    I would of course had given an amount that I could afford to maintain my children - I never refused that, but I was not given the chance.

    The amount I am giving is much more than I can afford and it means that I am severely restricted in my choices in taking a new family.

    The whole thing about the amount of access that I get is based on how much money she gets off me, the more nights she keeps the kids, the more I have to pay her.

    In the Summer Holidays she broke a court order , where the Judge ordered that I have overnight stays with my children (3 nights a week) and refused me any contact with my children.

    For breaking this court order she was rewarded with a few hundred pounds extra (taken from me by the CSA) and in order to see my children again I had to go back to court (at my cost, paying the few hundred pounds fees and taking two days off work) and apply for an Enforcement order.

    The sum total of all this is that the Judge gave her a telling off but she still ended up significantly better off financially and I ended up much worse off financially.

    This is how the system is set up.

    Being robbed doesn't become okay if it is the mother of my children.

    I will give money freely (whatever I can afford) when she goes about it the right way, until then, they are ill gotten gains.

    I am not bound by Shariah to pay any maintenance because she took my belongings and children and left to her mother's house without getting a divorce, anything I give is charity.

    Anyway - we are WAY off topic!

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuIbraheem. View Post
    I would of course had given an amount that I could afford to maintain my children - I never refused that, but I was not given the chance.
    Dear brother, I'm so sorry. I know this does happen, but it is just so sad.

    How on earth a woman can say to herself that buying slightly "better" clothing is better for her children than those children having access to their father is beyond me. The really heartbreaking thing is, one day the children will grow to hate her for depriving you from them. And she will not understand. She will not be able to make amends since she won't understand the underlying problem. Inshallah your situation will improve. May Allah swt bless you with a righteous spouse, Ameen.
    "Do not let your hatred of a people incite you to aggression." Qur'an 5:2

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuIbraheem. View Post
    I would of course had given an amount that I could afford to maintain my children - I never refused that, but I was not given the chance.

    The amount I am giving is much more than I can afford and it means that I am severely restricted in my choices in taking a new family.

    The whole thing about the amount of access that I get is based on how much money she gets off me, the more nights she keeps the kids, the more I have to pay her.

    In the Summer Holidays she broke a court order , where the Judge ordered that I have overnight stays with my children (3 nights a week) and refused me any contact with my children.

    For breaking this court order she was rewarded with a few hundred pounds extra (taken from me by the CSA) and in order to see my children again I had to go back to court (at my cost, paying the few hundred pounds fees and taking two days off work) and apply for an Enforcement order.

    The sum total of all this is that the Judge gave her a telling off but she still ended up significantly better off financially and I ended up much worse off financially.

    This is how the system is set up.

    Being robbed doesn't become okay if it is the mother of my children.

    I will give money freely (whatever I can afford) when she goes about it the right way, until then, they are ill gotten gains.

    I am not bound by Shariah to pay any maintenance because she took my belongings and children and left to her mother's house without getting a divorce, anything I give is charity.

    Anyway - we are WAY off topic!
    Brother, the maintenance is not for her, it is for the children, and that is completely separate from any of her behavior towards you. Even if she is a disobedient wife, you still have to maintain your children.

    I don't mean to intrude into your life, but having gone through similar I learned, when you fight someone, they fight back. When you forgive, there is nothing left to fight about. If you get your right for visitation, alhamdulillah, if there is no more fire (anger) in your heart, she can do nothing to ignite it.

    Your rizq is already written for you, if she is going to take 500 or 1000 that is what Allah decreed for you. If you get a new family, inshAllah it will bring it's rizq with it. Now that you are already having this money taken for your paycheck or what not, it is already gone. So now there is a choice you face. Do you let this situation make you have animosity in your heart for another Muslim who is also the mother of your children? Or could you possible remember her good points. Is she religious? Is she taking care of the children? Giving them an Islamic upbringing? Did she make a mistake? Probably. Did you? Probably. Is it incredibly frustrating and difficult? for sure. Unless you let go of it completely and put all your reliance on Allah.

    So my whole point is since Allah decreed your rizq for you, do you want the reward for the money going to your children or not? It is a matter of intention. If you give in charity your rizq will not decrease. It will multiply in reward and you will see the fruit of it. If you drop the battle, she is left with the consequences of what she did and if she is left with something haram that will be a fire in her hands. If you show her the good, maybe it will inspire her to return goodness to you. If not, your reward is with Allah and He is the Just.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by inprogress View Post
    Brother, the maintenance is not for her, it is for the children, and that is completely separate from any of her behavior towards you. Even if she is a disobedient wife, you still have to maintain your children.

    I don't mean to intrude into your life, but having gone through similar I learned, when you fight someone, they fight back. When you forgive, there is nothing left to fight about. If you get your right for visitation, alhamdulillah, if there is no more fire (anger) in your heart, she can do nothing to ignite it.

    Your rizq is already written for you, if she is going to take 500 or 1000 that is what Allah decreed for you. If you get a new family, inshAllah it will bring it's rizq with it. Now that you are already having this money taken for your paycheck or what not, it is already gone. So now there is a choice you face. Do you let this situation make you have animosity in your heart for another Muslim who is also the mother of your children? Or could you possible remember her good points. Is she religious? Is she taking care of the children? Giving them an Islamic upbringing? Did she make a mistake? Probably. Did you? Probably. Is it incredibly frustrating and difficult? for sure. Unless you let go of it completely and put all your reliance on Allah.

    So my whole point is since Allah decreed your rizq for you, do you want the reward for the money going to your children or not? It is a matter of intention. If you give in charity your rizq will not decrease. It will multiply in reward and you will see the fruit of it. If you drop the battle, she is left with the consequences of what she did and if she is left with something haram that will be a fire in her hands. If you show her the good, maybe it will inspire her to return goodness to you. If not, your reward is with Allah and He is the Just.

    The Shariah ruling is that she is in Nushooz, there is no maintenance due until the Islamic divorce (actually Annulment) is complete and that won't complete until she gives back the Mahr/Land.

    I know the maintenance isn't meant to be for her but in reality she is the one spending it.

    I have my children a lot of the time now and I provide for them, she is not in need of what she is taking from me and nor are the children.
    This is not a question of Rizq, we all know it is from Allah (swt).

    This oppression from one person on another. If a Muslim brother threatened you and took your lunch money every day not leaving you enough to feed yourself, would you give it as charity to him instead?

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuIbraheem. View Post
    The Shariah ruling is that she is in Nushooz, there is no maintenance due until the Islamic divorce (actually Annulment) is complete and that won't complete until she gives back the Mahr/Land.

    I know the maintenance isn't meant to be for her but in reality she is the one spending it.

    I have my children a lot of the time now and I provide for them, she is not in need of what she is taking from me and nor are the children.
    This is not a question of Rizq, we all know it is from Allah (swt).

    This oppression from one person on another. If a Muslim brother threatened you and took your lunch money every day not leaving you enough to feed yourself, would you give it as charity to him instead?
    Have you forgiven her? Can you forgive her fesabillah?

    Is she working to bring in her own money so that she is not in need, or is she at home full time taking care of the kids?

    Do you have shelter, food, and clothing?

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by inprogress View Post
    Have you forgiven her? Can you forgive her fesabillah?

    Is she working to bring in her own money so that she is not in need, or is she at home full time taking care of the kids?

    Do you have shelter, food, and clothing?
    No, No and yes she works when I have the kids (so I hear) but she is also living a much higher standard of living than me with a lot more disposable income thanks to the the benefits afforded to her by the government.

    Alhamdulillah I have food shelter and clothing.


    If I remarry I don't want to live in poverty with my new wife whilst providing a luxury lifestyle for someone else.

    There are ways of not paying anyway, the system has made it so I would be better off living off the government than working.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Well that makes sense, anyway you cut it, it is a difficult situation.

    May Allah make you among the patient and reward you for that.

    Please try to forgiver her. Surely, she has not transgressed against you more than what you have transgressed against Allah, right? We always expect Allah to forgive us, but do we remember to also forgive others? Forgive so you can be forgiven. There was some reason for this to happen and forgiveness opens the door to gratitude for all that has happened so you can take the lessons and move on.

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Shaykh Ibn Baaz (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The wife should behave in a reasonable manner and listen to and obey her husband in that which is right and proper, and she should not ask for a divorce with no reason. If there is a reason, there is nothing wrong with that, such as if he is miserly and does not give her her rights, or he commits a great deal of sin, such as drinking and the like, or if he stays up at night a great deal and neglects her right to intimacy, and other such reasons. These are valid reasons (for divorce). End quote from Fataawa al-Talaaq, p. 264.

    The woman can play a great role in reforming her husband and calling him to goodness and success, if she uses wisdom, kindness and good methods. First of all she should focus on religious matters, before physical and material issues. If his religious commitment improves, he will be helped and guided in all his affairs, by Allaah’s leave and grace.

    You should think of what your own situation will be if divorce happens. This is something to which no attention is paid at times of anger or when one is put off by one's husband. Rather it needs deep thought. The wise woman may accept a hard life with a husband in whom there is both good and bad, and she may prefer that to being divorced, suffering from loneliness and anxiety and looking for a husband at a time when many women are single and it is difficult for virgins to get married, let alone divorced women.


    http://islamqa.info/en/ref/67940/rea...0for%20divorce

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    Re: Legitimate Reasons for Divorce in Islam

    Quote Originally Posted by AbuIbraheem. View Post
    If a man issues Talaq then he would not be able to take back the gold etc and he would still have to pay the maintenance etc.

    Anyway, yours is a situation that is against the norm.

    My ex divorced me, she took all the stuff we had gathered in the past 10 years and just gave me back some of my clothes and a £100 laptop.
    Initially she was also taking £680 a month child maintenance from me as she denied me all access to my children, now its down to £500 (on top of all her benefits and council housing of course).
    She has also filed for half of my house (which she never paid a penny towards) in the Civil divorce.
    I have also been left with thousands of pounds of legal fees (which were used to get contact with my children), she had no legal fees as that was covered by the generous tax payer.

    This is the normal situation in a divorce in this country , the woman takes everything and leaves the man on the street or renting a dingy room somewhere because that is all he can afford.

    A lot of women would call that fair,
    I'm not sure mine is a situation against the norm. I'm pretty sure that many girls from UK marry grooms from Pakistan and alot of them dont have much money. I married for the correct reasons, ie did not marry coz he was a doctor etc, just thought he was acha insaan (got that wrong)...so when we divorced I didnt get anything except paltry mahr amount. The islamic talaaq was given within a wk yet the kaffar divorce is still eating into my parents money as i dont qualify for benefits nor would i ever want to claim them.

    I am however sorry for ur circumstance and would say that even though my husband left me on the wishes of third parties, even if he was rich I would not want a penny from such a human being. I have enough faith to know that if allah wishes me to live without wealth then so be it, but if he wishes me to live richly (in monetary terms) then thats fine too.


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