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Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 04:08 PM
911 - The Basic Questions
The question list is designed for a commission of inquiry and individuals called to testify.
You should use this list, politically, to send to your US Congressman and local papers, etc.


1. Why didn't jets intercept the airliners since they
had numerous warnings of terrorist attacks?
2. Why did Ashcroft stop flying commercial, citing an
unidentified 'threat' in July 2001?
3. Why were there no photos or videos of the Pentagon
plane?
4. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of
the classroom?
5. Where was George H. W. Bush at the time of the
attacks?
6. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the
flights all use the term boxcutters?
7. Where are the flight recorders?
8. Why were the FISA warrants discontinued?
9. How did Bush see the first plane crash on live
camera?
10 Why was security meeting scheduled for
9/11cancelled by WTC management on 9/10?
11. How did they come up with the 'culprits' so
quickly?
12. How did they find the terrorist's cars at the
airports so quickly?
13. Why did Shrub dissolve the Bin Laden Task Force?
14. Why the strange pattern of debris from Flight 93?
15. Why was no plane seen at the Pentagon?
16. How extensive was the relationship between the
Taliban, the ISI and the CIA?
17. What exactly was the role of Henry Kissinger at
UNOCAL?
18. When was it decided to cancel building a pipeline
from Turkmenistan through Afghanistan to Pakistan?
19. When was the decision made to send the FEMA to New
York?
20. Why did FEMA spokesman Tom Kenney tell Dan Rather
he was in New York on Sept. 10?
21. Why did the FBI in 1996 close the files to
investigate Osama bin Laden's relatives in Washington?
22. Why did .Bush stop inquiries into terrorist
connections of the Bin Laden family in early 2001?
23. Who made the decision to have John O'Neill stop
investigating Al-qeada accounts?
24. Who gave the decision to give him a security job
at the World Trade Center?
25. Did John O'Neill meet anyone of the FEMA in the
night of September 10th?
26. What about media reports that hijackers bought
tickets for flights scheduled after Sept. 11?
27. Why did none of the 19 hijackers appeared on the
passenger lists?
28. Why would devout Muslims frequent bars, drink
alcoholic beverages and leave their bibles?
29. Why would the hijackers use credit cards and allow
drivers licenses with photos to be zeroxed?
30. Why did the hijackers force passengers to call
relatives?
31. How did the hijackers change the flight plan
without law enforcement or the military try to stop
them?
32. Which hijacker's passport was found in the WTC
rubble? Who found it and what time?
33. How could the FBI distinguish between 'regular'
Muslims and hijacker Muslims on those flights?
34. Why was there not one 'innocent' Muslim on board
any of these flights?
35. Did someone go through the passenger lists looking
for Muslim names and label them as hijackers?

MOHAMMED ATTA

36. Did the Florida police provide information that
Atta was searched because of 1)an expired Visa, 2)
driving a car without a license, 3) because of an
incident at Miami Airport?
37. Why did Atta leave his bag at the airport and the
employees didn't put it on board?
38. Who found his bag? How can we be sure it it was
his bag?
39. Why did Atta place a video 'how to fly planes', a
uniform and his last will into his bag, knowing that
he would commit suicide?
40. Why did Atta leave his drivers license in a rental
car?
41. When did Atta train on a flight simulator?
42. Did Atta leave the US while in training and then
return?
43. Why did Atta decide to study at Opa Locka, a
famous hub of 6 Navy training bases and includes
government partners like U.S. Coast Guard Air Station,
Police (Miami-Dade) Aviation Unit?
44. Why was Atta allowed to study since he was stopped
by the police for driving without a license and also
for violating his visa?

THE BLACK BOXES AND CRASH VIDEO

45. Why were the Black Boxes never recovered ?
46. Why didn't the FBI release the air traffic
controller's protocols?
47. Why did the FBI not release the Flight Data
Recorder info?
48. Who video-recorded the first plane hitting the
tower? Why did he disappear from the media?

THE HIJACKERS

49. How did the FBI receive a tip from a passenger who
boarded a different plane and reached his destination
safely that he had a confrontation with two ME men at
the Logan airport in Boston?
50. Who tipped the FBI to storm the Westin Hotel in
Boston on September 12th?
51. Where did the photos of all 19 hijackers come
from?
52. How were all hijackers identified just 2 days
after the attack?
53. Why did all 19 names not appear on the passenger
list 2 days after the hijacker list was released?
54. Why do none of the names appear on the passenger
lists UA and AA gave to CNN?
55. How could the hijackers disable the defense
systems?
56. Why did the FBI ignore Bin Laden's family, who
left the United States without further investigation
57. What about the supposed hijackers who are still
alive?
58. Was there a reason to change the list of the
original 19 hijackers?
59. What happened to Ayub Ali Khan and Mohammed Jaweed
Azmath, who have been in jail since
September 2001, because of possession of box cutters
on a train?Who gave the tip to arrest them?
60. Why did it take 4 months before Ramsi Binalschibhs
name was mentioned, since he was a good friend of
Mohammad Atta and lived in his apartment in Hamburg?
61. Why did it take 4 months until December 11 to
charge Zacarias Moussaoui for the 9/11 attacks when
his case was known worldwide for months, but not
mentioned in the American media?
62. Whatever happened with Lotfi Raissi, who was
arrested in UK for teaching the terrorist pilots?
63. What is the current status of the investigation of
Mamoun Darkazanli Import-Export-Company in Hamburg and
Al Taqwa Management Organisation in Lugano?
64. Why was Richard Reid able to enter the Paris
airport twice and who paid for his hotel?
65. Who hired Zacarias Masspoui to learn how to fly
passenger jets in the United States?
66. Why did the FBI or CIA fail to interrogate him
between August and December 2001?

BIN LADEN

67. Did the CIA monitor Bin Laden in 1998 with the
help of 15 Afghan agents, paid $1,000/ month?
68. Where are these agents? Was Johnny 'Mike' Spann
one? Was John Walker Lindh one?
69. Is an Afghan agent a member of the ISI? Is an
Afghan agent working for Bin Laden?
70. When was the first time Tenet mentioned the
Al-Quaeda group to any member of the Senate?
71. Why did the Pentagon release a new video version
or translation of the Bin Laden Home video?
72. Why it was released only 8 hours after translation
by the German magazine MONITOR on December ?
73. Why were the four translators prior US-Government
workers?
74. When was the Bin Laden Home Video found and who
found it?
75. Who found the video if Northern Alliance and US
troops had not yet arrived in Kandahar or Jahalabad?
76. Does the timestamp on the Bin Laden video indicate
that it was found two weeks after it was produced?
77. Why was the public not informed who found the
video and when?
78. Why according to MONITOR magazine, were the most
controversial statements translated incorrectly?
79. Why was the video released?
80. Who gave the final decision to release it?
81. Why is the Bin Laden video of June 2001 in which
he praised the attack, available on the Internet?
82. What about Bin Laden's statements on Al-Jazeera in
June 2001 about the bombing of USS Cole, which are
similar to the statements on the November 2001 home
video?
83. Why did Bin Laden state in Umman Magazine in Sept.
2001, that he was not involved in the WTC?
84. Is Bin Laden still on the payroll of the CIA or
ISI?
85. Did the Bin Laden Group Inc. help build ToraBora
with the CIA?
86. What was the purpose of the meeting with General
Pervez Musharraf in May 2001?
87. Why was a statement released that Al-Khalifa bin
Laden, who is not the mother of Bin Laden, had a
telephone call with Bin Laden on September 9, rather
than Alia Ghanem, his mother? Why did Alia Ghanem say
she did not believe he planned the attack?

ANTHRAX AND MICROBIOLOGIST DEATHS

100. What happened on September 18th, when an employee
of Batelle Memorial Institute was involved in a
so-called anthrax hoax on that day? Was he arrested?
101. Why did the investigation of that case begin in
December 2001?
102. What was in the memo of Dr. Leonard Horowitz, a
public health consumer advocate and author of 'Death
in the Air' on October 1, 2001, almost two weeks
before the first anthrax letter was sent from Trenton
to the American media building in Boca Raton?
103.What about his letter of Nov. 13 in which he
claimed that BAYER is behind the anthrax infections?
104. Did US BioDefense laboratories send the
anthrax-laced letters to get a new budget for
research?
105. What about the statement of former UN-weapons
inspector of Iraq, Richard Spertzel, who told ABC,
'...he knows only five scientists in the USA who would
be in the situation to produce such a fine, highly
developed spore material'?
106. Why did it take 48 hours to inform Bob Stevens
that he had anthrax?
107. Why were envelopes never found near Bob Stevens,
Amelie Lundgren and Mia Nguyen?
108. How come Microsoft got a hoax anthrax letter from
Malaysia on the same day that President Bush said
Malaysia might be one of the next targets of the
United States?
109. Why did the FBI never investigate the case Don
Wiley, a Bioscientist who disappeared 11/13/01?
110. Why did the FBI begin to investigate after his
body was found on December 22, 300 miles away?
Was there an investigation at the military hydro plant
where workers found him?
Why did the media write different versions about how,
when and where he was found?
Why did the police report change 2 months later from
suicide to an accident?
111. What was the goal of Bioport in 1997?
112.Did development of anti-anthrax vaccines begin in
1998?
113.When did Bioport decide to produce anthrax
vaccines?
114. Was it before or after Sept. 1998 that Admiral
Crowe was put in charge of investigations of the
August 7, 1998 bombings of Embassy Nairobi and Embassy
Dar Es Salaam?
115. Did the schedule for developing anti-anthrax
vaccines begin starting in 1998?
116. When did the US Government ask Bayer for help in
developing a vaccine?
117. When did Bayer start sending the vaccines to the
U.S.?
118. When did Bayer double production of the vaccines?
119. Was the death of Vladimir Pasechnik investigated?
He was former director of the Institute of Ultra Pure
Biochemical Preparations of the Soviet bio-warfare
establishment Biopreparat in November 2001?
120. How are the deaths of scientists Robert M.
Schwartz, Dr. Benito Que and Set Van Nguyen explained
since all occurred in the same month? Is Set van
Nguyen related to the anthrax victim Mia Nguyen?
121. What about the death of Nancy Sonnenfeld
(FEMA-Wife)?
122. Why was the NJ Division of Fish and Wildlife
examining Anthrax in August 2000?
123. Do any employees in Trenton have the same
handwriting as printed on the Anthrax envelopes?
124. Is it just a coincidence that the laboratory is
also based in Trenton?
125. Did the FBI ever ask Fort Detrick to examine
anthrax spores?
126. What about the list of 15-20 labs (maintained by
Barbara Rosenzweig) who used Fort Detrick spores?
127. Does the CIA have spores different from those at
Fort Detrick?
128. Why did Tommy Thompson, The Secretary of the
Department of Health and Human Services,
and other Bush cabinet members meet secretly (i.e.
illegally) in Oct. 2001 with officials of the
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America
(PhRMA) to develop plans for their Emergency
Preparedness Task Force?
129. Why did he decide on October 25, 2001 to ask
Congress for another $500 million to produce Acambis's
smallpox vaccine?
130. Why did it take 4.5 hours until Jean Marie
Malecki , Director Palm Beach County Health
Department, picked up the phone for employees of the
AMI-Building, Boca Raton. This is where editor Bob
Stevens got anthrax. Why did she wait two days before
she visited that building again?
131. Did Walter Gilbert, Director Myriad Genetics ever
get official permission from relatives of those killed
at WTC to examine their DNA?

FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE AGENCIES

150. Why did General Mahmud Ahmad, former head of the
ISI quit his position?
151. Why did retaliation against the Taliban begin the
day he stepped down?
152. Who in the ISI paid $100.000 to Mohammad Atta?
153. Why does Ahmad think that another secret service
was involved in the WTC attack?
Which Secret Service was he referring to? Did other
ISI official's believe that? Did officials of the CIA
believe that? Did some officials of the Mossad believe
that?
154. What was the purpose of Ahmad's visit to
Washington on 9/11?
155. Who told Russian Foreign Minister Ivanov to abort
an air strike against Afghanistan in May 2000?
156. Did Russian intelligence notify the CIA in 2001
that 25 terrorist pilots had been training for suicide
missions, as reported in the Russian press?

KISSINGER

1. What did Kissinger mean that an 'outside threat
from beyond', a 'world government' and 'individual
rights' who are 'willingly relinquished for the
guarantee of their well-being granted', what you
mentioned in 1991 on a Bilderberg Conference?
2. What was his role at UNOCAL?
3. Is he in contact with representatives of these
companies or institutions:
4. What did he discuss at the Bilderberg meeting last
year in May 2001?
5. What was the purpose of his meeting with Moscow
Mayor Yuri Luzhkov in July 2001?
6. Why does he write in 'Toward a New Diplomacy for
the 21st Century' that America doesn't need a Foreign
Policy?
7. When was the last time Henry Kissinger met
US-Ambassador in Pakistan, Robert Oakley?

THE PURCHASE OF AIRLINE PUT OPTIONS

1. Is it true that the CIA is in possession of PROMIS
software?
2. What is the purpose of PROMIS?
3. Did A.B. 'Buzzy' Krongard, CIA, own any stocks of
United Airlines, American Airlines, Merrill Lynch, 4.
Morgan Stanley, AXA Re (insurance) which owns 25% of
American Airlines, and Munich Re.?
5. What is his connection to Alex Brown, Deutsche
Bank?
6. Did he give any insider information about to George
Tenet, CIA?
7. Who was the investor who purchased 2,000 UAL put
options between August and September 11, 2001?
8. Did Deutsche Bank-Alex Brown own any stocks of UA,
AA, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, AXA Re (insurance)
which owns 25% of American Airlines, and Munich Re?
9. What about the 2,500 UA-contracts which were 'split
into 500 chunks each, directing each order to
different U.S. exchanges around the country
simultaneously.' on August 10, 2001?
10. Did Deutsche purchase UAL options in August 2001?
11. Why did DB-AB purchase 4,744 put options on United
Air Lines stock as opposed to only 396 call s on
September 6-7? What was the purpose of doing that?
12. What is the connection to Wally Kromgaard?
13. Did Deutsche Bank or Wally Kromgaard purchase
4,516 put options on American Airlines as compared to
748 call options on September 10?
14. What was the reason of Mayo Shattuck III
re-asssignment on September 15th?

THE TALIBAN AND THE CARPET OF GOLD..

1. When was the last time they met any representatives
of the US-Government?
2. What was the purpose of these meetings?
3. Do the Taliban know Karl E. Inderfurth and State
Department counterterrorism chief Michael Sheehan?
4. Do they know which US-Representative said in
February 2001: 'Either you accept our offer of a
carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of
bombs'?
5. When was the last time the Taliban was in touch
with this representative?
6. Did Abdul Haq, the former Mujahedin leader executed
Sept 2001 by the Taliban, decide in Winter 2000 to
attack the Taliban?
7. Did production of opium in Afghanistan fall from
3276 tonnes in 2000 to 185 tonnes in 2001?

GLOBAL HAWK TECHNOLOGY

1. Was Global Hawk technology able to remotelycontrol
unmanned planes in 1999 for 27 hours?
2. Did Northrop-Grumman use Global Hawk technology in
the war in Afghanistan since October 2001?
3. What is the purpose of unmanned technology?
4. Is Northrup in contact with any engineers of
Boeing?
5. Did Northrup install Global Hawk technology in a
commercial airplane?

CARRIER AND TROOP MOVEMENTS BEFORE SEPT 11

1. Did two U.S. carrier battle groups arrive in the
Gulf of Arabia just off the Pakistani coast before
9/11?
2. Did 17,000 U.S. troops join more than 23,000 NATO
troops in Egypt for Operation 'Bright Star' on 9/11?
What was the purpose of both of these operations?

BIOCHEMICAL WARFARE

1. When did Tommy Franks learn that he would use
Thermobarics in ToraBora?
2. Does he know if it had been tested on December 12
in Nevada?
3. Who told Franks that Bin Laden might hide in
ToraBora?
4. Is the main purpose of Thermobarics to destroy
buried bio and chemical stocks?
5. Was Thermobarics developed for the purpose to use
one day in Iraq?
6. When was the first time Franks used Thermobarics?
Was it before or after the announcement of the end of
ABM Treaty on December 11?
7. When did the US decide to use B61-11, the 'nuclear
version' of its 'conventional' BLU-113 counterpart?
8. Why has the NSA destroyed data collected on
Americans or US companies since the Sept. 11 attacks?

ABORTED ATTEMPTS TO GET BIN-LADEN

1. Why did Clinton abort an attack on Bin Laden in
October 1999?
2. Who was responsible for that operation?
3. Why was the operation put on hold?
4. Why did Musharraf halt a covert operation to attack
Bin Laden in October 1999?
5. Why did the GOP in Congress stop almost every move
Clinton made against terrorism? They refused to
believe reports and pass necessary legislation. In
1996 Clinton proposed a very extensive anti-terrorism
regulation.

RICHARD REID

1. Who hired Richard Reid to threaten a passenger
plane in Paris?
2. Who did he send an email to in Pakistan?
3. Has he ever been in touch with the ISI or CIA?
4. Did he know the difference between an explosive and
a detonator?
5. How many ounces did he have in his shoes?
6. What size are his shoes?
7. Who build or prepared his shoes?

JOHN WALKER LINDH

1. Has John Walker Lindh ever been in touch with the
CIA?
2. Did he ever work for the CIA?
3. Who arrested him in 2001?
4. Why didn't he escape in the tumult to nearby
Masar-e-Sharif?
5. Who hired his lawyer, Richard Brohanan? Who paid
his lawyer?
6. Why didn't he go to Guantanamo Bay?

DICK CHENEY

1. When did Cheney stop working for Halliburton?
2. Is he still in possession of any Halliburton stock?
3. Is he still in contact with Halliburton?
4. Was Halliburton invited to an oil conference in May
2002?
5. Does Cheney know when that meeting was planned?
6. Did Cheney have influence concerning Halliburton
contracts with the Pentagon?
7. What exactly did Cheney decide to do on September
11th?
8. Did he speak with an Air Force Commander or Lt.
Gen. Charles F. Wald on that day?
9. When did he inform the president about the hijacked
airplanes on September 11?
10. Who called the White House on September 11 at 9:30
PM about a possible threat?
11. Why was no air security at the White House or the
Pentagon at 9:30 PM?
12. When and who gave the approval to evacuate the
White House at 9:45 PM?
13. What was the purpose of a meeting with Indian
opposition leader Sonia Gandhi in June 2001 about a
multimillion-dollar debt owed to Enron from a major
energy project in Indian Power Plants?
14. When was the last time Cheney spoke with anyone
from ENRON?

COLIN POWELL

1. What was the role of Colin Powell?
2. Who decided to give $43 million in aid to the
Taliban regime in May 2001?
3. Did he know that production of opium in Afghanistan
fell from 3276 tonnes in 2000 to 185 in 2001?
4. What was the purpose of his decision to treat the
Taliban prisoners as War Prisoners? Is this decision
in any way related to media reports 2 days earlier
that Powell may have been involved in negotiations
with Indian Power Plants?
5. What was the purpose of his short trip to Latin
America on September 11?
6. Who decided that he fly to Latin America on that
day?
7. Why would someone threaten him in Afghanistan on
January 17, 2002 as Newsweek reported?
8. What was the purpose of Powell meeting with India's
foreign minister on April 6, 2001?
9. Did Enron or Cheney ask Powell to help collect a
$64 million debt on an Indian plant project?

GEORGE H.W. BUSH

1. When was the last time George H.W. Bush traveled to
South Arabia on behalf of the Carlyle Group?
2. What was the purpose of that meeting?

THOMAS WHITE

1. Is Thomas White still in contact with ENRON?
2. Did his contact at anytime influence his decisions?
3. Does he still own ENRON stocks?

DELMART VREELAND

1. Did Vreeland warn Canadian Intelligence in May 2001
about possible terrorist attacks on New York and the
Pentagon?
2. Did he place the warning in an envelope while in
prison in Toronto, Canada?
3. Where did he get his information?
4. Whom did he give the envelope to?
5. Why was he placed in jail?

SAUDI-BINLADIN-GROUP.COM

1.Was the domain created on September 11th, 2000?
2. Who paid for that domain?
3. Are they also owners of Iridium Satellites?
4. When did they end contact with relatives of the
Bush family?

THE CARLYLE GROUP

1. When was the last time George H.W. Bush traveled to
Saudi Arabia on behalf of the privately owned Carlyle
Group, the 11th largest defense contractor in the
U.S.?
2. What was the purpose of that meeting?
3. When did he resign from Carlyle Group?
4. Is he still in touch with any of their
representatives?

STEPHEN LANDER, Director MI5

1. Did Lander monitor a phone conversation between
Zacarias Moussaoui and Richard Reid in Dec. 2000?
2. What did Lander tell representatives of the CIA
about Zacarias Moussaoui?
3. Why did he stop monitoring Djamel Beghal, member of
Takfir-wal-Hijra (financed by Osama bin Laden) in
August 2001?

BIN LADEN IN DUBAI

1. Did Bin Laden in July 2001 enter an American
hospital in Dubai?
2. Did he arrive on July 4, 2001 on a flight from
Qetta, Pakistan to American Hospital?
3. Was he at the hospital July 4-11, 2001?
4. Did Bernard Koval, CEO of American Hospital, ever
speak with Doctor Terry Callaway about that visit?
5. Why did he change his statements about this story
not being true and that he 'asked around'?
6. What is the difference between Continuous
Ambulatory Peritoneal Dialysis and Continuous Cycling
Peritoneal Dialysis?
7. Did Koval know Larry Stevens?
8. Can Koval explain why Richard Labeviere, author of
'Terror Dollars' (about illegal Al-Quaeda accounts),
wrote the story about Osama Bin Laden's kidney
operation?

GEORGE W. BUSH

1. What exactly happened on September 11 and at what
time was President Bush informed?
2. Why was President Bush scheduled to visit a school
in Florida?
3. Who scheduled the time of the visit?
4. When exactly did Bush learn about the first crash
into the WTC?
5. How could he have seen that on TV?
6. Why didn't he interrupt his school meeting as soon
as he learned of the first plane crash?
7. Did Bush ever wonder how Bin Laden was able to hear
the first plane crash live on the radio?
8. Which radio station he was listening to?
9. Can Bush explain how Bin Laden's Home Video was
found only two weeks after it was produced?
10. Why did Bush decide to release Bin Laden's Home
Video?
11. What is the purpose of the Western Hemisphere
Institute for Security Cooperation (WHISC) in Fort
Benning, Georgia, where terrorists have been trained
for undercover agents in South America?
Bush stated 'if any government sponsors the outlaws
and killers of innocents, they have become outlaws and
murderers themselves'. So what does he think about
Fort Benning?
12. What is the role of Zalmay Khalilzad (former
UNOCAL) in the National Security Council ?
13. What is the current role of Zalmay Khalilzad
(former UNOCAL) in Afghanistan?
14. When was Bush's last contact with anyone from
ENRON?
15. Why was China admitted to the WTO on September 13
after 15 years of unsuccessful attempts?
16. Why did Bush postpone the release of Ronald
Reagan's records?
17. How does Bush feel about the need to investigate
the CIA's mistakes?
18. Does Bush agree with senators John McCain, Joseph
I. Lieberman, Porter J. Goss, former C.I.A.
clandestine case officer and a Florida Republican,
Richard C. Shelby and Ron Paul, US Congressman, who
want an investigation and have said 'Secret government
is winning out over open government'?
19. Did he know before he left his hotel that morning
on the way to the school that the 1st tower had been
hit?ABC news reported that morning that he was asked
by reporters if he was aware of events in NYC and he
answered yes. If so, why did he later say he first
heard of it was when he was at the school?
20. Why did Bush continue to sit in that classroom
reading to children when he should have been
conferring with his advisors?
21. Why did Bush say that he and Card initially
thought it was an accident involving a small plane?
22. Given all the information sources available to the
POTUS and his staff how could his people not have
known the kind of plane involved?
23. Why didn't they know at this point, as did the FAA
and NORAD, that aircraft were hijacked?
The Batallion Chief in the 9/11 video was seen and
heard asking for military backup immediately after the
building was hit.
24.How come the NYFD knew it was terrorism right away
but the POTUS and his aides just calmly went about
their business?

TONY BLAIR

1. Were 25,000 British troops and the largest British
Armada since the Falkland Islands War, part of
Operation 'Essential Harvest' pre-positioned in Oman,
the closest point on the Arabian Peninsula to Pakistan
before September 11, 2001?
2. When did he begin to place SIS-Special Forces in
Afghanistan? Why?

THE SUN-SENTINEL

1. Did Gloria Irish own unit 1504 at the Delray
Racquet Club, 755 Dotterel?
2. Did she rent that property to Hamza Alghamdi in
August 2001?
3. Why did the media not report about a connection of
the Sun-Sentinel and the hijackers?
4. Why did it first appear that the hijackers had
something to do with the anthrax attacks?
5. Why has this connection or coincidence never
appeared in the media again?
6. What was the connection between husband Michael
Irish (SunSentinel) and Bob Stevens (who died from
Anthrax)?

WARNINGS

1. When did Vladimir Putin warn the CIA about a
possible terrorist attack and what was their reaction?
2. What was the purpose of the meeting between
Christina Rocca, director of Asian affairs at the
State Department and the Taliban ambassador Mollah
Abdul Salam Zaeef in Islamabad in August 2001?
3. Why did she oversee the delivery of Stinger
missiles in the 80s to Afghan mujaheddin?
4. Did Walid Arkeh in Seminole County jail inform the
FBI in August 2001 about an attack on America? What
was the reaction of the FBI?
5. Why did Dr. Jeffrey Starr, U.S. department of
defense, visit Tajikistan in Jan 2001?
6. When did Jean-Claude Cousseran, Director DGSE ,
French Secret Service inform the CIA about terrorist
attacks on America? What was their reaction?
7. What does he know about the monitoring of Djamel
Beghal, member of Takfir-wal-Hijra (financed by Osama
bin Laden) and Kamel Daoudi? Did he ever inform the
CIA about that? And when?
8. When did Italian Deputy Prime Minister Gianfranco
Fini inform the CIA about a possible attack on the
American president 'with the use of an airplane'? What
was their reaction?
9. When did President Mubarak, Egypt, inform the CIA
about a possible attack on America with an 'airplane
stuffed with explosives'? What was their reaction?
10. When did Efraim Halevy , Director of Mossad since
1998 (unconfirmed) inform the CIA about a possible
attack with '200 terrorists' on America? What was
their reaction?
11. Is it true he warned Ariel Sharon not to travel to
New York on September 11 to speak at a festival?
12. Did a caller to Loxley Banks, Director Radio
Cayman Islands talk show, give several warnings of an
imminent attack on the U.S on Sept. 3 -10?
13. The London Times reported that someone from the
FAA warned Salman Rushdie not to travel to the United
States on September 3rd? If this is true, who was it?
14. Did the FBI investigate the two men who met
Mohamed Atta and Marwan Al-Shehhi in Harry's Bar at
the Helmsley Hotel in Manhattan on September 8, 2001?
15. Who does Abdullah Abdullah (Northern Alliance)
believe killed Commander Ahmad Shah Massoud on
September 9, 2001?
16. When and why did he decide to attack Kabul on
September 11 at 5:30 PM?
17. When did he decide to invade Masar-i-Scharif
18. Did the CIA helped him provoke a tumult?
19. Did he ever meet John Walker Lindh?
20. Why was Major John Kenny, Commander Wright
Patterson Air Base, Dayton placedon high alert on
September 10? Did he inform companies in Dayton to
shutdown their offices?
21. Why was Colonel William M. Dietrick , Commander
Defense Language Institute in Garrison, Monterey on
high alert on September 10?
22. Why did one of Kenneth (Ken) Weinbrecht (President
SAMS ) executives say on September 10, that he was a
'Wildcard. Ruthless and cunning. Has capability to
target US forces and make it look like a
Palestinian/Arab act.''
23. Did Jean-Louis Bruguiere, French anti-terrorism,
inform the CIA on September 10 about a possible
terrorist attack? If so, what was their reaction?
24. Why did Atta and hijacker Abdulaziz Alomari checke
into a Portland, Maine motel (unidentified) on
September 10?
25. Why was the Portland, Airport, according to
eye-witnesses, in full charge of more military
officials and soldiers than usual, weeks before
September 11, 2001?
26. Why, as the San Francisco Chronicle reported, was
Mayor Brown warned to be 'cautious in your travel' the
night of September 10? Who warned him?
27. Why did Alex Diamandis, Odigo Vice President of
Sales and Marketing, receive a warning on his
messenger service about a possible attack on America
on September 11, 2001? At which time?
28. When did Dr.August Hanning , President BND
(Bundesnachrichtendienst Germany) inform the CIA that
'Middle Eastern terrorists are 'planning to hijack
commercial aircraft ?' What was their reaction?
Did he allow an Iranian prisoner in Hamburg call to
the CIA in Summer 2001 about an attack on America?
What was their reaction?

AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL/GLOBAL HAWK

1. Why did Kenneth Waldie, Stanley Hall, Herbert Homer
and Peter Gay of Raytheon travel on Sept. 11? 2. 2.
Can Global Hawk technology be used for at least 27
hours?
3. Is Global Hawk technology used in commercial
airplanes?
4. Did Danielle O'Brien, air traffic controller,
inform another air traffic control center about a
plane traveling fast southwest of Dulles after
spotting it 8:18 AM on September 11?
5. Who was informed and what happened?

THE PENNSYLVANIA CRASH

1. Why didn't Dr. James G. Roche, Secretary of the Air
Force try to reach the airplanes in NYC (7 minutes
time for McGuire AFB in New Jersey ) and at the
Pentagon (10 minutes time)?
2. Did Roche ever try to shutdown the plane in
Pennsylvania?
3. Can Roche explain why magazines of that plane were
found 20 miles away from the crash?
Andrews AFB is 13 miles away. He had one hour and
fifteen minutes to respond to the plane that hit the
Pentagon. What happened during that time?
4. Can he explain why many ear- and eye witnesses,
including workers of the road construction company New
Enterprise saw or heard F-16 jets ?
5. Why did President Bush say only one week later that
he tried to shutdown that plane?
6. Who gave that decision?

DEFENSE ALERTS AND MOVEMENTS

1. Why did George Bush leave Barksdale Air Force Base
aboard Air Force One and flew to an Air Force base in
Nebraska on 1:48 PM on September 11 and returned to
Washington at 4:30 PM?
2. What exactly did Donald Rumsfeld do that day before
he arrived at the Pentagon around 3:55 PM?
3. How did Rumsfeld know at 5:30 PM on September 11
that the plane in Pennsylvania could have been headed
for one of three possible targets: Camp David, the
White House or the U.S. Capitol building?
4. Can he explain why early media reports told us that
no squadrons of combat-ready fighter jets have been at
Andrews and later changed their reports that they
haven't been on high alert only?
5. Why was Air Force Lt. Col. Vic Warzinski, another
Pentagon spokesman, so sure on September 11 that
aircraft was coming your way?
6. What did the D.C. Air National Guard in Washington
do on September 11?
7. Can he explain what those 3 fighters did from
9:40AM until 9:55AM when they finally turned towards
Flight 93 and were 60 miles out at 10:06am?
8. Can he explain why Air Traffic Controllers in a
Nashua Telegraph article did report an F-16 was
circling Flight 93 and was in visual range at the time
of crash?
9. Can he confirm a witness report that National Guard
F-16's have been at Hancock field in Syracuse NY in
the air early that morning before 9AM?
10. How could the hijackers know how to disable
defense systems?
11. What was the official reason that fighters of the
305th Air Wing, McGuire Air Force Base, NJ did not
intercept the 2nd hijacked plane in NYC? This would
have been possible within 7 minutes after 8:48 AM
12. Why did none of the 459th Aircraft Squadron
(Andrews AFB) fighters intercept the plane which
crashed into the Pentagon? Andrews AFB is 10 miles
from Washington DC.
13. Col. Ken McClellan, Air Force spokesman said on
September 11, that Mohammad Atta attended the
International Officer's School at Maxwell/Gunter Air
Force Base in Montgomery, and was seen by
eye-witnesses? What was McClellan doing there? Why did
he later deny the report?
14. Why did he decide not to shutdown ECHELON base Bad
Aibling in Germany as planned for 2002?
15. What is the reason that none of any Air Force
fighters reached the hijacked plane in time?
16. Many eye- and witnesses think that the plane in
Pennsylvania was shot down. What is the scientific
explanation why the magazine of the airplane was found
many miles away?
17. Why did Jack Kelly, idefense.com, inform USA Today
only 12 minutes after the first crash (8:48AM), that
terror groups using Web encryption may have been
responsible? And why was he so sure before the second
crash at 9:03 PM?
18. Did Kelly serve with the U.S. government where he
managed several significant programs for the
information warfare and intelligence communities?
19. Did Joseph J. Esposito, Chief of NYPD try to
contact the Pentagon at 9:06 AM on September 11? What
was their reaction?
10. Why didn't General Elwood 'Pete' Quesada of the
FAA inform President Bush between 8:15 and 9:05 about
four simultaneously hijacked planes? Who did he inform
and what was their reaction?

THE WTC COLLAPSE

1. What does Nicholas Scoppetta of FDNY know about the
latest reports of the WTC destruction?
2. Can he explain why many witnesses saw and heard
more than two explosions in the WTC?
3. Can he explain why both Twin Towers and Building 7
collapsed in that way?
4. Can he explain why a gas tank was in Building 7?
5. Can he explain why there were no passengers in the
subway under the WTC?
6. Can he explain why there was no guard at the gold
reservoir under the WTC?
7. Why did Dr. Jeffrey P. Koplan, Director CDC
prepare, as CNN reported, emergency-response teams on
September 11 at 11:16 PM?

MISCELLANEOUS

1. When did Dr.August Hanning , President BND
(Bundesnachrichtendienst Germany) inform the CIA that
'Middle Eastern terrorists are 'planning to hijack
commercial aircraft ?' What was their reaction?
Did he allow an Iranian prisoner in Hamburg call to
the CIA in Summer 2001 about an attack on America?
What was their reaction?
2. When did Tayseer Allouni , Kabul correspondent
Al-Jazeera, receive his first video from Bin Laden?
Can he explain why the first video on October 7 2001,
the day of the retaliation, looked like it was
recorded in the morning?
3. Did Tom Simmons (former U.S. Ambassador to
Pakistan), Karl Inderfurth (former Assistant Secretary
of State for South Asian affairs) and Lee Coldren
(former State Department expert on South Asia) decide
or announce in a July 2001 meeting that an attack was
planned on the Taliban in October 2001?
4. Why did Ms. Barbara Bodine, US ambassador to Yemen
stop John O'Neill from investigating Al-Quaeda
accounts in July 2001?
5. Did Niaz Niak, former Pakistani Foreign Secretary
say in mid July 2001 that the USA planned military
action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban?
6. Did Hameed Gul, retired Pakistani general of
Pakistan's Inter Services Intelligence, say that a
secret service was involved in the attack on America?
7. Why did Tommy Thompson, The Secretary of the
Department of Health and Human Services,
and other Bush cabinet members meet secretly (i.e.
illegally) in Oct. 2001 with officials of the
Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America
(PhRMA) to develop plans for their Emergency
Preparedness Task Force? Why did he decide on October
25, 2001 to ask Congress for another $500 million to
produce Acambis's smallpox vaccine?
8. Why did it take 4.5 hours until Jean Marie Malecki
, Director Palm Beach County Health Department, picked
up the phone for employees of the AMI-Building, Boca
Raton. This is where editor Bob Stevens got anthrax.
Why did she wait two days before she visited that
building again?
9. Why did Mayor Guilani sell WTC rubble to India for
recycling and also China? Who made that decision?
10. What was the purpose of U.S. Ambassador Wendy
Chamberlain's phone call on October 10, 2001 to the
Pakistani oil minister? Why was she sure that a
previously abandoned Unocal pipeline from Turkmenistan
across Afghanistan to the Pakistani coast for the
purpose of selling oil and gas to China, was back on
the table in view of recent geopolitical developments?
11. What exactly was found on Z. Moussaoui's computer
after 9/11, when local agents were given a Federal
Intelligence Security Act (FISA) warrant, which they
had requested six weeks previously?
This ties directly into the question of the
administration's dealings with the Taliban, its
reluctance to investigate Saudi nationals, etc.
12. Why the attack on Cynthia McKinney for asking: 1)
why has there been no investigation of the 9-11
attack? and 2) did Bush/CIA/NSA know of it beforehand,
and allow it to happen?
13. Why is the Bush administration so strongly against
a real investigation into the events of 9-11?
14. Why did the US give 43 million dollars to
Afghanistan back in May or June of 2001
15. Why did Bush toss the Hart-Rudman terror security
study (developed over a 2 year period) and instead
assign responsibility to Cheney and FEMA?
16. Why did Ashcroft stops flying commercial, citing
an unidentified 'threat' in July 2001?
Why did the FBI and Justice not identify the form,
origin and time of the threat?
17. Why did Bush stay in Texas for the month of August
and Cheney in Wyoming?
18. Why no photos or videos of the Pentagon plane? And
there's not a single credible frame of film or second
of video of this? Also, why hasn't a similar flight
path graphic ever been published?
19. Why didn't the Secret Service hustle Dubya out of
the classroom a half-second after Andy Card told him,
'Mr. pResident, the nation is under attack'?
20. Why did they leave him exposed to danger for two
and a half minutes in the classroom and another
half-hour in the school before he returned to the
relative safety of Air Force One?
21. Where was George H. W. Bush at the time of the
attacks?
22. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the
flights tell people on the ground that the highjackers
had 'box cutters'?
23. Where are the flight recorders?
24. How did they find a passport that just 'happens'
to belong to one of the hijackers in the WTC rubble
and they can't locate even ONE flight recorder?
25. Why no investigative reporting of the Pentagon
scene? The photos do not show much, but then
photographers were not allowed, initially, to
photograph the scene, if I remember correctly.
26. Why was the series of recommendations Al Gore also
put together in 1996 on airport security called by
Republican congress 'paranoid' and too harsh. Why did
the airline industry, lobbying against it, consider it
too expensive and impractical.
27. Why was the Hart-Rudman report on the potential
dangers of terrorism in the homeland. The results of
the research ignored by Bush?
28. Why were FISA warrants disallowed by Bush?
29. Why did the US pull the plug on Muslim websites
Monday September 10, 2001?
30. Why did the Saudi bin-Laden-group have a website
with a PRE-SET expiration date of Sept. 11, 2001?
31. Why were the bin Ladens flown out of the U.S. on
private jets the day after the 9/11?
32. Why did Cheney say that everyone in the White
House started taking Cipro on September 12 when the
first anthrax letter wasn't postmarked until September
18. 33. Why did Bush dissolve the Bin Laden Task
Force? What would have happened had this focused and
knowledgeable group been in place 9 months before 911?
34. Why was metallic debris found 8 miles from the
crash site of the plane that went down in Penn? They
said it went straight down and left a small hole in
the ground. If they found metallic debris from the
plane 8 miles away it was either shot down or a bomb
exploded in the plane.
35. Why did they not let the media or any reporters
take video or photos of the crash site?

http://motleykrew.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3237

Infidel
05-09-02, 04:22 PM
You want me to send this to my congressman? Why exactly? So I can be admitted to a psych ward?

Global hawk technology. Oh brother.

Peace
05-09-02, 04:24 PM
ASA,

You raise excellent questions that non-Muslims need to answer.

I have ONE that Muslims need to answer;

Why did Bin Laden support these attacks and say those who carried it out are martyrs of Islam and in Paradise - when the Qur'an clearly forbids killing innocent people?

Hassan.

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 04:58 PM
smirk!!! infedel not to worry!!! no one will ever give you that much credit!!!


Originally posted by Infidel
You want me to send this to my congressman? Why exactly? So I can be admitted to a psych ward?

Global hawk technology. Oh brother.

Infidel
05-09-02, 05:02 PM
No one will give me enough credit for a forced mental health inpatient stay? What on earth.....

Oh, and for some reason my last post here was deleted. Need some guidance from the admin as to why. Feedback loop, you understand. I simply copied some of the crazy questions from the above list.....

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 05:05 PM
thats ok infedel :) i agree you need a psycho ward :)

its gonna be ok now :)

Kaiser
05-09-02, 05:11 PM
Very interesting questions those all are, tho there arent any answers here, very interesting.

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 05:16 PM
only a few zionist supporters trying to make questioning this seem silly :)

how are you this day kohr-ah? i hope well :)

Infidel
05-09-02, 05:28 PM
Richard Reid

6. What size are his shoes?

That's not silly?

And of course there is an answer to that. 10 1/2. Double EE. Everyone knows that.

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 05:32 PM
ok infedel...answer the rest please?

Infidel
05-09-02, 05:39 PM
35. Did someone go through the passenger lists looking
for Muslim names and label them as hijackers?

No.

Am I done yet, or do I need to keep this up?

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 05:40 PM
how do you know that? please continue we are all waiting breathlessly for your wisdom :)

Shaloom
05-09-02, 05:47 PM
wanna be Christians jump to downplay and ridicule others opinions? Are they hiding something and donot want people to think or ask questions??

Here is another question that I thought off?

Those Culprits, Why they Planned to Hijack American and United Airlines??

This is my take on it.....
Whoever planned it, it will falme the sense of patriotism (United, American??) and it will rile up the hoodlums and rif raffs to react..Now who bennefits out of those???

Go back to the NY Times around January or Feb 2001 and find an article written by Bar - Illan sounding the Alarm bells how the Arab and Moslem community had helped Bush win....

Infidel
05-09-02, 05:51 PM
15. Why was no plane seen at the Pentagon?

Why? Because the Pentagon self-combusted, of course.

The hundreds of eyewitnesses on route 395 who saw a plane were actually hooked on smack and hallucinating.

Infidel
05-09-02, 05:57 PM
30. Why did the hijackers force passengers to call
relatives?

Huh. First I've heard that one. I'm quite well read on the 9/11 attack. I'd love to see a source that anyone was FORCED to call relatives.

Let's dispense with reality. Let's say they did. So?

UnenlightenedOne
05-09-02, 05:58 PM
Even if someone has all the answers, we respect your right to ask more questions Mr. Haq. Don't ask if you don't want to hear them.

What was that question you used to ask everyone? "If America and Israel went to war, who would you fight for?", that was you wasn't it? If it was, you were quite the patriot then.

Infidel
05-09-02, 05:58 PM
29. Why did the US pull the plug on Muslim websites
Monday September 10, 2001?

Really? Wow. Which ones. Source?

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 06:01 PM
gee thanks percy...you quite the patriot yourself :)


keep going infedel...we are all chamed by your wit :)


Originally posted by kaphirgoyim
Even if someone has all the answers, we respect your right to ask more questions Mr. Haq. Don't ask if you don't want to hear them.

What was that question you used to ask everyone? "If America and Israel went to war, who would you fight for?", that was you wasn't it? If it was, you were quite the patriot then.

UnenlightenedOne
05-09-02, 06:03 PM
It WAS you that asked that question ad-infinitum on MSNBC-BBS then, wasn't it?:confused:

Shaloom
05-09-02, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by kaphirgoyim
Even if someone has all the answers, we respect your right to ask more questions Mr. Haq. Don't ask if you don't want to hear them.]


I like to hear the answers..............May be it will dismiss some of the doubts that I have, so does many Americans I talk to...



What was that question you used to ask everyone? "If America and Israel went to war, who would you fight for?", that was you wasn't it? If it was, you were quite the patriot then.

I know you were asking Abdul Haq, but..................
Who do you think I will fight for??? :D :D

unbiased
05-09-02, 06:06 PM
One question:

Why are almost all the questions in the original post based on lies, misinformation, incorrect interpretations or ignorance?

Unbiased

UnenlightenedOne
05-09-02, 06:07 PM
Shaloom :p

If name_any_country_here went to war with Israel, who would you fight for? hehe (You SIG answers that neatly :))

I think the question is relavent to Mr. Haq cuz I have a similar question for him which I may ask privately so as not to anger anyone. Perhaps you can guess the question?

Shaloom
05-09-02, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by kaphirgoyim
Shaloom :p

If name_any_country_here went to war with Israel, who would you fight for? hehe (You SIG answers that neatly :))

I think the question is relavent to Mr. Haq cuz I have a similar question for him which I may ask privately so as not to anger anyone. Perhaps you can guess the question?

If the US goes to any War with any country, I will NOT GO, except you know who>>>

BUT, if ANY COUNTRY comes and fight US here in out homes, I WILL defend my home... I hope I answerd what are you trying to bring a cross...
Respectfully,

Shaloom

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 06:16 PM
percy i will follow my conscience as always...i refused to fight in the war against vietnam.....i did not fight for veitnam.....

so what would i do in ANY given situation? follow my conscience

Infidel
05-09-02, 06:16 PM
122. Why was the NJ Division of Fish and Wildlife
examining Anthrax in August 2000?

After about number 100, the author just begins to, a la James Joyce, do a frontal lobe stream-of-consciousness dump.

ANTHRAX ANTIBIOTIC APPROVED TO COUNTER BIOLOGICAL WARFARE

ROCKVILLE, Maryland, September 5, 2000 (ENS) - For the first time, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved an antibiotic for use in cases of biological warfare. The agency announced Thursday that antimicrobial Cipro® (ciprofloxacin) has been approved for use in individuals exposed to "inhalational anthrax" - a disease caused by breathing in anthrax spores. Bacillus anthracis, the bacterium that causes anthrax, can be used as a biological weapon, the agency noted. "Inhalational anthrax is thought to be the most likely form of this infection to result from the intentional use of an aerosolized preparation of spores of B. anthracis," FDA said in a release.

So in August, same year, NJ Fish and Wildlife is involved in examining anthrax as an endemic biological vector agent for terrorism. I don't understand what the author is driving at, but to pad the overall number of questions.

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 06:20 PM
why dont you start with #1 and work your way throught infidel cherry picker?

dont just take the ewasy ones and aviod the rest hoping that it will negate them....

Infidel
05-09-02, 06:21 PM
6. Why did passengers or crewmembers on three of the
flights all use the term boxcutters?

um...that's what the terrorists used?

7. Where are the flight recorders?

Take 2 tons of airplane fuel. Ignite. Collapse 200K ton building on top of what's left. Look for flight recorder. Good luck.

PA Flight recorder found.

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 06:22 PM
they didn't find the black boxes but did find one of the terrorist passports?

keep going infidel :)

hahahaha :)

its getting better :)

UnenlightenedOne
05-09-02, 06:23 PM
>>percy i will follow my conscience as always...i refused to fight in the war against vietnam.....i did not fight for veitnam.....

so what would i do in ANY given situation? follow my conscience<<

Ok, so your concience back in those days was that you WOULD fight for the USA against Israel and not visa-versa, correct?

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 06:24 PM
i am fighting against israel by all means presently available to me....

what is your point?

sfvalley
05-09-02, 06:24 PM
there are way too may question to respond properly, but the 1st one about intercepting planes, 1st off we have never needed to do that, and intercept it to do what? shoot it down? who would make that decision and how quickly? their intent was not known until the 1st plane hit the towers. While and hour may seem like a long time, it would have to go through so many channels, I could not possibly see how it could have been responded to. The USa probably now has a specific protocol on how it would handle a situation like that, but I am sure it did not have one back then.
One question you forgot to ask was, why do you spend so much time making a complete idiot of yourself? It is hard to find out what peoples intentions on here are, but as a non-muslim trying to find out how muslims think, I would think that there are many muslims ashamed that you are posting stuff on here that ? But I would like you to answer hassan's question.

Infidel
05-09-02, 06:25 PM
Why go item by item? this is more fun. don't worry. I'll get to them all.

3. Why were there no photos or videos of the Pentagon
plane?

Anyone who knows anything about tourism in the DC area can answer that one.

Not too many tourists poking around the pentagon early in the morning. And commuters typically don't carry cameras.

Now Haq. Why don't you see if you can find some info on the questions I had. Muslim sites turned off by the government. Let's see some evidence.

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 06:27 PM
you musta missed this one infidel :)they didn't find the black boxes but did find one of the terrorist passports?

UnenlightenedOne
05-09-02, 06:31 PM
They didn't find 2800 bodies either, what's YER point?

According to SAC there were only 4 armed fighters on the East Coast Sept 11th. But that still doesnt' REALLY answer the question does it?

How come there are no ggod pictures of the shooting star I saw last night?

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 06:32 PM
got lotsa good pics of the planes hitting WTC percy.......

Infidel
05-09-02, 06:35 PM
3. Can Roche explain why magazines of that plane were
found 20 miles away from the crash?

They weren't. They were found 6 miles away. And trig would help Roche explain why...

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Abdul Haq
you musta missed this one infidel :)they didn't find the black boxes but did find one of the terrorist passports?

UnenlightenedOne
05-09-02, 06:39 PM
>>got lotsa good pics of the planes hitting WTC percy.......<<

How many tourists hang around the Pentagon with camera's?

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 06:40 PM
a lot :)

UnenlightenedOne
05-09-02, 06:44 PM
Apparently not on Sept 11th. But I guess one guy with a camera is worth more than 300 eye witnesses.

So you would fight FOR AMERICA? or what?

My take on the terrorists, "He killed them with their love" (John Cofey). I am going to write a story about my belief what happened on the WTC planes.

sfvalley
05-09-02, 06:46 PM
you musta missed this one infidel they didn't find the black boxes but did find one of the terrorist passports?


A passport would have a much easier time traveling in the air away from the crash scene than a a box that would way 50 lbs. or so doesn't question 3 answer that question.

i am fighting against israel by all means presently available to me....

what is your point?

are you? why are you losing?

28. Why would devout Muslims frequent bars, drink
alcoholic beverages and leave their bibles?
29. Why would the hijackers use credit cards and allow
drivers licenses with photos to be zeroxed?


Anyone about to commit suicide has a self hatred. Part of that self hatred is to do things that are self destructive such as going against ones religious teaching.

Since they were not planning on living, maybe it was not important for them to hide those things, or maybe it is a way for their own glorification to be known.

Abdul, how many questions do we need to answer right before you admit how wrong you are about everything?

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 06:49 PM
my original question was for israeli firsters and zionist percy....since they never found anything right with palestine or wrong with israel

if you remember the neuremburg trails it wasn't enough to say 'i was only following orders' since it becomes a moral responsibilty to question orders.....and of course i would fight for USA....if i thought it was right


i would never fight against it

i will not fight against iraq and will be amoungst those good patriotic americans that are part of the protest against it


i hope we are done with this question since you percy have known me long enough to have anticipated all my answers and its beginning to bore me

unbiased
05-09-02, 06:49 PM
Hello.

well...I have better things to do than to waste my time answering all these questions, so I will just answer a few at the beginning

#1. Why didn't jets intercept the airliners since they
had numerous warnings of terrorist attacks?
-easy: a. the u.s. does not keep fighters on high alert, so there were no fighters ready to intercept. everything happened so fast that they could not respond. b. the u.s. did not know that the terrorists would fly the planes into buildings - they thought it was just a typical hijacking so there would be no reason to kill the people they thought they would be negotiating to get released.

3. Why were there no photos or videos of the Pentagon
plane?
easy:
-why should there be? did the terrorists film it? 8:30 in the morning - there won't be too many tourists even awake much less searching for a plane about to hit the pentagon. Most airline accidents don't have any photos or film - so this is more typical than what happened in new york.

9. How did Bush see the first plane crash on live
camera?
easy:
he did not see it live.

11. How did they come up with the 'culprits' so
quickly?
12. How did they find the terrorist's cars at the
airports so quickly?
easy:
-many of them were already on the FBI or CIA watch list.

14. Why the strange pattern of debris from Flight 93?
-huh?
-planes crash and explode in unpredictable ways.

ugh...ok...that's enough...
and that is just the start...

time to get on with life.
Unbiased

UnenlightenedOne
05-09-02, 06:51 PM
>>28. Why would devout Muslims frequent bars, drink
alcoholic beverages and leave their bibles?
29. Why would the hijackers use credit cards and allow
drivers licenses with photos to be zeroxed? <<

Dumb people. Most criminals that get caught are. Besides, they had nothing to hide anyway and were going to die. They WANTED the USA to know who hit them. Bin Laden is just playing the game too ("It wasn't me, honest").

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 06:54 PM
gee percy if they were so dumb why weren't they caught before their mischeif?

and percy if they were so dumb why was there no paper trail found tracing them back to osama?


Originally posted by kaphirgoyim
>>28. Why would devout Muslims frequent bars, drink
alcoholic beverages and leave their bibles?
29. Why would the hijackers use credit cards and allow
drivers licenses with photos to be zeroxed? <<

Dumb people. Most criminals that get caught are. Besides, they had nothing to hide anyway and were going to die. They WANTED the USA to know who hit them. Bin Laden is just playing the game too ("It wasn't me, honest").

UnenlightenedOne
05-09-02, 07:53 PM
>>gee percy if they were so dumb why weren't they caught before their mischeif? <<

Cuz no one was looking for them. That is still an excellent question. How come the law didn't anticipate that Nicole Brown-Simpson would be murdered and arrest her attacker?

>>and percy if they were so dumb why was there no paper trail found tracing them back to osama? <<

There WAS a paper trail. Remember, the guy who sacrificed his life in a terrorist attack was dumb. Bin Laden is a GENIOUS (in my opinion).

UnenlightenedOne
05-09-02, 07:57 PM
>>i hope we are done with this question since you percy have known me long enough to have anticipated all my answers and its beginning to bore me<<

I think it is important to remember the answers. I thank you for them. Trust me the 9/11 questions are extremely taxing on me.

Do you think the USA is at war with Islam?

expat
05-09-02, 08:30 PM
www.snopes2.com/rumors/pentagon.htm (http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/pentagon.htm)

expat
05-09-02, 08:39 PM
http://www.snopes2.com/rumors/rumors.htm

I particularly like the one about Bert from Sesame Street appearing on posters with Osama bin Laden, check it out!

I particularly dislike the one about the severed and bound hands. That piece also mentions Abduls passport obsession.

Regards

Abdul Haq
05-09-02, 08:39 PM
no percy i dont thin USA is at war with islam...but zionist in our administration....like perle and rumfeld would like us to be...and of course the pigraeli would like us to be....i would consider a war on islam un american...how bout you percy?


Originally posted by kaphirgoyim
>>i hope we are done with this question since you percy have known me long enough to have anticipated all my answers and its beginning to bore me<<

I think it is important to remember the answers. I thank you for them. Trust me the 9/11 questions are extremely taxing on me.

Do you think the USA is at war with Islam?

Khuli
06-09-02, 01:49 AM
Abdul Haq-The Basic Question

1. How many hours of Abdul Haq's life are
wasted away compiling long lists of inane
questions regarding 911 when he could
better serve his maker actually accomplishing
something for the good of all mankind.

Evil E
06-09-02, 04:48 AM
Originally posted by Khuli
Abdul Haq-The Basic Question

1. How many hours of Abdul Haq's life are
wasted away compiling long lists of inane
questions regarding 911 when he could
better serve his maker actually accomplishing
something for the good of all mankind.

"The first key to wisdom is constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth.

The important thing is not to stop questioning.

There are no foolish questions, and no man becomes a fool until he has stopped asking questions.

Millions saw the apple fall, but Newton was the one who asked why."

Khuli
06-09-02, 05:09 AM
Newton discovered :

-differential calculus,
-the law of composition of light, from which he went on to analyze the nature of color and white light,
-gravity,
-why the moon rotated around the Earth,
-that the Earth wasn't a perfect sphere, but flattened at the poles because of rotation,
-a theory on comets which helped Halley with predicting his comet.

He not only posed the questions, he found the answers.

Abdul Haq
06-09-02, 05:13 AM
well, here is a bit more for you khuli know it all and rude arrogant nothing....there is a link where i got it from...i didn't write it :)

Evil E
06-09-02, 05:33 AM
You can't find answers till the questions are posed.


Originally posted by Khuli
Newton discovered :

-differential calculus,
-the law of composition of light, from which he went on to analyze the nature of color and white light,
-gravity,
-why the moon rotated around the Earth,
-that the Earth wasn't a perfect sphere, but flattened at the poles because of rotation,
-a theory on comets which helped Halley with predicting his comet.

He not only posed the questions, he found the answers.

expat
06-09-02, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by Evil E
You can't find answers till the questions are posed.



Abdul,

If you received satisfactory answers to all of these questions, would you then believe al-Quaeda were responsible or would you still believe it was MOSSAD?

You've seen the evidence available to most people thus far and you still have your suspicions, so, based on what established facts (or I'll even take assumptions or prejudice if you like) do you believe MOSSAD were involved?

Do you buy the explanations in relation to the Pentagon attack after seeing the above link?

If you can answer any of the above satisfactorily, then it might be worth continuing with this exercise.

Regards

Abdul Haq
06-09-02, 01:57 PM
what if? i didn't and wont so it doesn't matter what if right?


get a life expat

UnenlightenedOne
06-09-02, 03:10 PM
>>no percy i dont thin USA is at war with islam...but zionist in our administration....like perle and rumfeld would like us to be...and of course the pigraeli would like us to be....i would consider a war on islam un american...how bout you percy? <<

Of course not. I would prefer Kaph, not percy Abdul. I took on percy after the incident on MSNBC:BBS. For Percy Wetmore. Did you see "The Green Mile"? I promise not to call you cartman (or one of those other nasty names), ok.

lacadaza
06-09-02, 03:44 PM
You gotta lotta splainin To do!


Maybe we can write Ollie North, in his autobiography “Under Fire” in talking about terrorism; he wondered how many dead Americans it would take before we the US would do something? Anyone could answer these questions logically or hypothetically, but really, in writing our government, do you think they will actually sit down and give a full blown explanation to any, NO, I have questions too, but the government is never going to answer them, I guess that is why we have the CIA, FBI, etc….no one will ever find out what is really going on, and I guess if you did find out the truth, you would be dead before you got to tell anyone, just my opinion!

Peace
06-09-02, 04:50 PM
ASA

It seems to me that it is disingenuous at the very least of us Muslims to go on trying to deny that Muslims were behind the 9/11 attacks, when we all know that there are only too many ready and willing to do such things.

Whether there were other forces at work, manipulating or facilitating the attacks is irrelevant. It doesn’t concern me - or surprise me - that there are non-Muslims whose interests are served by discrediting us or who would benefit from the events and repercussions of the 9/11 attacks.

What concerns me is that Muslims, who claim to hold the moral high ground, not just support such an attack on innocents but are champing at the bit to carry out more.

Any Muslim with even a small amount of experience with the various Muslim communities knows that there ARE very hard line ‘Jihaadis’ who even now call for further attacks on the Kuffar.

I can name several groups and individuals I have known and still know who support the 9/11 attacks and innocents as legitimate targets – although of course they would justify it by saying “They support the Kufr system, so they are not innocent”

This catchall can include just about anyone they don’t like – and it does! Even fellow Muslims have been declared Kafir, Munafiqs and agents of Shaytan.

So whom are we fooling when we deny this?

And why are we not focussing on ridding our community of such people instead of trying to constantly deflect the REAL issue with conspiracy theories.

Who cares if it is true that Mossad played some part in manipulating such an attack in order to further their ends!

This just in… Mossad doesn’t particularly like Muslims… Helloooooo! I already knew that!

But what concerns me is that we Muslims do support and are willing to carry out such attacks and use Islam to justify it.

I am sickened by this dishonesty and denial. How can we ever claim to be following true guidance and attain the help of God, when we go against one of the most fundamental teachings that to kill an innocent soul is like killing the whole of humanity???????????

That really is the Basic Question of 9/11

Hassan.

UnenlightenedOne
06-09-02, 05:07 PM
Hassan,

Those are exactly my thoughts. If Bin Laden is just a patsy for the Mossad, why do people shower him with respect and admiration. When he publicly went out (on the UNDISPUTED tapes) and warned Muslims in the USA to stay away from public gatherings and tall buildings, the same people that claim he is innocent dismiss it.

Bin Laden is a social GENIOUS. He knew 100% that his denial of involvement in 9/11 would lead to the catastrophy of the bombing of Afgahnistan. He knew that his actions would lead to polarization of the Arab world against the west. That is/was all part of the master plan to incite Armegeddon (in my opinion).

What the Kuffar truly see is this attitude-

"The worst of us is better than the best of you".

sfvalley
06-09-02, 06:04 PM
Hassan, I really appreciate your sentiments. Not every amrerican feels the same, but the I do not feel ill will towards muslims in general for the sept 11 attacks. I realise that many have reason to attack the USA. But I am harboring ill will for the people who deny the obvious, If they deny even the most basic of facts, it makes me wonder what else they are decieeved about. You want americans to side with you on Israel and claim that they are pigs and liars, and the Israelis do the same, but we are forced to choose a side. Whose side do I choose? I was always against aid to Israel, but when I hear the vile remarks towards people groups that i hear on this website, it gives me reason to give Israel support. When I hear that George Bush and the CIA is involved, or that the Israeli Mossad is involved, it gives muslims no credibility at all. I have heard Osama Bin Laden say in so many different ways that muslims were involved, but then i hear that he did not come right out and say it, so it couldn't have been muslims. I feel great empathy towards muslims like you and many others who feel the way you do. But then I hear Abdul, and I think, who is the majority opinion in the muslim world. Do I have reason to fear the muslim world, or is it a just a vocal minority that is involved in this hatred? I have to make my decisions based on what I know. Unfortunatly, I do not know any muslims personally so it is places like this that I learn who muslims are.

Raven
06-09-02, 06:31 PM
Intelligently spoken Hassanradwan.

I must say that I completely agree with Kaphirgoyim & mostly with SFvalley.

I remember people talking about how the possible/potential hijacker in Sweden was caught with a gun the other day. People were already coming up with conspiracies about how it was probably planted & such. What information did they base this upon? I have no idea.

Peace
06-09-02, 07:28 PM
Forget the things you hear from some on the Internet. It is a place of extremes and few real voices of moderation.

Muslims are good people! They are the most kind, honest, warm, generous and loving people you could wish to meet. You will be safer amongst Muslims than any people in the world. They are honourable and trustworthy and compassionate.

It truly breaks my heart to see my people so afraid and so hopelessly imprisoned by the few who claim to have sole possession of ‘true’ Islam or who have imposed their hatred onto Islam. Muslims are held back, uneducated, impoverished and suffer many injustices and some have taken advantage of this to push their hate agenda.

My prayer is that Muslims will one day break out of this and have the courage to stand up and say what they really feel.

At the moment very few will speak out because of the fear.

But that will change one day.

But don’t hate Muslims – believe me they are good people and we have a lot to give the world and we can live in peace with all people.

Hassan

Bilquis
06-09-02, 07:39 PM
Alhamdulillah for people like you brother Abdul Haqq. May Allah SWT Reward you infinitely.
They can't answer any of those questions so they mock, ridicule and play with words which is one of the things the Yahudi does best (and most of the ones answering this thread are those).

Forget these kadhibeen. Jehannam is pining for them Insha'Allah

UnenlightenedOne
06-09-02, 08:01 PM
Our answers that were provided are ridiculed.

Some people don't want answers, just excuses. Blame the victim.

With regards to your personal condemnations (Bilquis), God knows better than you. I'll defer judgement of any man to the Almighty. May each man get the reward he deserves.

Hassan, the Christians have the KKK, so we know the filth that extremism is capable of promoting well. Bless you and your family (and bless the fundamentals with greater wisdom too).

jcap
06-09-02, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by hassanradwan
ASA

It seems to me that it is disingenuous at the very least of us Muslims to go on trying to deny that Muslims were behind the 9/11 attacks, when we all know that there are only too many ready and willing to do such things.

Whether there were other forces at work, manipulating or facilitating the attacks is irrelevant. It doesn’t concern me - or surprise me - that there are non-Muslims whose interests are served by discrediting us or who would benefit from the events and repercussions of the 9/11 attacks.

What concerns me is that Muslims, who claim to hold the moral high ground, not just support such an attack on innocents but are champing at the bit to carry out more.

Any Muslim with even a small amount of experience with the various Muslim communities knows that there ARE very hard line ‘Jihaadis’ who even now call for further attacks on the Kuffar.

I can name several groups and individuals I have known and still know who support the 9/11 attacks and innocents as legitimate targets – although of course they would justify it by saying “They support the Kufr system, so they are not innocent”

This catchall can include just about anyone they don’t like – and it does! Even fellow Muslims have been declared Kafir, Munafiqs and agents of Shaytan.

So whom are we fooling when we deny this?

And why are we not focussing on ridding our community of such people instead of trying to constantly deflect the REAL issue with conspiracy theories.

Who cares if it is true that Mossad played some part in manipulating such an attack in order to further their ends!

This just in… Mossad doesn’t particularly like Muslims… Helloooooo! I already knew that!

But what concerns me is that we Muslims do support and are willing to carry out such attacks and use Islam to justify it.

I am sickened by this dishonesty and denial. How can we ever claim to be following true guidance and attain the help of God, when we go against one of the most fundamental teachings that to kill an innocent soul is like killing the whole of humanity???????????

That really is the Basic Question of 9/11

Hassan.





Hassan,

I agree with you entirely. One of the points which gets easily obfiscated in all of the anti Kufr rhetoric is that the vast vast majority of Muslims want peace, prosperity and respect, just like any other group.

Framing the event in terms of a Muslim vs non-Muslim struggle is extremely detrimental to both the Muslim community and the non Muslim community. In fact, the more either side frames the debate in these terms, the more self fulfilling is the Muslim vs non-Muslim split.

As an American, I think the challenge is to focus on crafting foreign policies that are right and productive, as opposed to foreign policies that simply react to the events of 9-11 for the sake of flexing a muscle. One reaction to terrorism is to intentionally do what we think the terrorists DON'T want us to do, simply for the sake of not caving into terrorism. For example, OBL wants the US to drop its support of Isreal, lift trade sanctions on Iraq, and remove its bases in Saudi Arabia. There are those who were somewhat ambivalent on all of these issues prior to 9-11 who will now argue that we need to maintain our current stance on all three policies, so as to NOT appear that we're caving in to OBL's demands. I think our challenge is to try our hardest NOT to let OBL's actions impact policy one way or another.

For Muslims, I suspect that biggest challenge is to accept that the people who carried out 9-11 did so, however misguidedly, in the name of Islam. The Koran emphasizes that Muslim unity is key to the welfare of the Ummah. As a Kafir, I think that's fine, but this principle cannot possibly translate into the requirement that all Muslims support cold blooded killers, even if the killing is perceived as revenge. Islam would not have attracted billions of followers with such a requirement. Fact is, Osama bin Laden and Ayman al Zarwahi are cold blooded killers.

unbiased
06-09-02, 08:08 PM
Hello Hassanradwan,

It it very nice to hear your good words of reason.

Thank you!
Unbiased


Originally posted by hassanradwan
ASA

It seems to me that it is disingenuous at the very least of us Muslims to go on trying to deny that Muslims were behind the 9/11 attacks, when we all know that there are only too many ready and willing to do such things.

Whether there were other forces at work, manipulating or facilitating the attacks is irrelevant. It doesn’t concern me - or surprise me - that there are non-Muslims whose interests are served by discrediting us or who would benefit from the events and repercussions of the 9/11 attacks.

What concerns me is that Muslims, who claim to hold the moral high ground, not just support such an attack on innocents but are champing at the bit to carry out more.

Any Muslim with even a small amount of experience with the various Muslim communities knows that there ARE very hard line ‘Jihaadis’ who even now call for further attacks on the Kuffar.

I can name several groups and individuals I have known and still know who support the 9/11 attacks and innocents as legitimate targets – although of course they would justify it by saying “They support the Kufr system, so they are not innocent”

This catchall can include just about anyone they don’t like – and it does! Even fellow Muslims have been declared Kafir, Munafiqs and agents of Shaytan.

So whom are we fooling when we deny this?

And why are we not focussing on ridding our community of such people instead of trying to constantly deflect the REAL issue with conspiracy theories.

Who cares if it is true that Mossad played some part in manipulating such an attack in order to further their ends!

This just in… Mossad doesn’t particularly like Muslims… Helloooooo! I already knew that!

But what concerns me is that we Muslims do support and are willing to carry out such attacks and use Islam to justify it.

I am sickened by this dishonesty and denial. How can we ever claim to be following true guidance and attain the help of God, when we go against one of the most fundamental teachings that to kill an innocent soul is like killing the whole of humanity???????????

That really is the Basic Question of 9/11

Hassan.

Bilquis
06-09-02, 08:47 PM
"ASA

It seems to me that it is disingenuous at the very least of us Muslims to go on trying to deny that Muslims were behind the 9/11 attacks, when we all know that there are only too many ready and willing to do such things.

Whether there were other forces at work, manipulating or facilitating the attacks is irrelevant. It doesn’t concern me - or surprise me - that there are non-Muslims whose interests are served by discrediting us or who would benefit from the events and repercussions of the 9/11 attacks.

What concerns me is that Muslims, who claim to hold the moral high ground, not just support such an attack on innocents but are champing at the bit to carry out more.

Any Muslim with even a small amount of experience with the various Muslim communities knows that there ARE very hard line ‘Jihaadis’ who even now call for further attacks on the Kuffar.

I can name several groups and individuals I have known and still know who support the 9/11 attacks and innocents as legitimate targets – although of course they would justify it by saying “They support the Kufr system, so they are not innocent”

This catchall can include just about anyone they don’t like – and it does! Even fellow Muslims have been declared Kafir, Munafiqs and agents of Shaytan.

So whom are we fooling when we deny this?

And why are we not focussing on ridding our community of such people instead of trying to constantly deflect the REAL issue with conspiracy theories.

Who cares if it is true that Mossad played some part in manipulating such an attack in order to further their ends!

This just in… Mossad doesn’t particularly like Muslims… Helloooooo! I already knew that!

But what concerns me is that we Muslims do support and are willing to carry out such attacks and use Islam to justify it.

I am sickened by this dishonesty and denial. How can we ever claim to be following true guidance and attain the help of God, when we go against one of the most fundamental teachings that to kill an innocent soul is like killing the whole of humanity???????????

That really is the Basic Question of 9/11

Hassan."


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


You know 'Hassan', when I read your posts mocking and questioning the Sharia'ah in another thread, I wondered if you were really Muslim as you claimed, but I gave you benefit of the doubt... however, the above post really makes me think not...

All I'd say to you is, WHO are YOU to condemn Muslims for a crime that has not been proven to have been committed by them?

Just because your Kuffar buddies on this board and around the world say it's true, does not mean it is.

Do you have some superior intelligence? :mad:

I am sickened by YOUR dishonesty, accusations and propaganda without proof!

Believe me, 'Muslims' like you are a rarity (if there are any at all) and a good thing too.

But before you go get all defensive, remember that there are a substantial number of Kuffar that don't believe the lies about September last year.

Read the 'Appalling Fraud' by the French bloke [I forget his name...] Read also the many persuasive articles published by sane, non-Jew Amreekans who question this 'event'... not all of them are a bunch of Yahudi controlled robots.

You don't speak for most Muslims Alhamdulillah.

And what's it to you if there are Jihaadis? They're hardly telling you to come fight with them are they?!! And if it wasn't for those 'Jihaadis', the lot of the average Muslim in Palestine, Kashmir, Chechnya, Bosnia and elsewhere would be infinitely worse.

If you don't or can't fight for 'your' oppressed brethren, you have NO RIGHT to condemn and criticise those that do.

One of the good things to come from that event is that believing Muslims will be separated out from the munafiqs Insha'Allah

Bilquis
06-09-02, 08:52 PM
"Hassan, the Christians have the KKK, so we know the filth that extremism is capable of promoting well."

Aah, the Kaphir is finally showing the Yahudi fangs. :p
Like I'm really surprised... :rolleyes:

Peace
06-09-02, 09:15 PM
Originally posted by Bilquis
And what's it to you if there are Jihaadis? They're hardly telling you to come fight with them are they?!!

ASA Bilquis,

It's funny you say that because I have many friends who have told me exactly that!

In particular I had a very close friend, his name was Hassan Ghanmi he was a Moroccan young man and we were great friends. We were both members of the North Finchley Da'wah group. We used to hang out together and play football together for a Muslim football team. Then one day he met a Sheikh in Ladbroke Grove who was preaching Jihaad against the Kuffar. He changed dramatically from a caring, loving young man into a sort of robot. He left his wife and two children (in a council flat and on social security - provided by the Kuffar) and stood every day outside Regents Park mosque shouting "Al-Jihaad fi Sabililah Yah Ikhwaan!" He even collapsed and couln't speak. It was like he was suffering from some sort of mental illness.

His sheikh then told all his followers to follow him to Afghanistan to fight Jihaad. He told me to join him. He read out a "Bayan" (Declaration) and said that either I must follow it or I was a Kafir and he should kill me. It was really scary. Here was a guy who was once a friend and a father who had become some sort of monster who would definitely have slit my throat if I had said I didn't agree. So I told him I needed more time to think and took the "Bayan" and went home.

He went to Afghanistan and left his family to be looked after by the Kuffar (his wife and children didn't want to go!)

This was way before sept 11th and his Jihaad was fighting other Muslims in Afghansitan. I heard 2 reports about what happened to him. One was that his group was all slaughtered and he was cut to pieces anothe was his group eventually merged with OBL's group.

Here is the bayan he gave me.

I know these groups very well Bilquis and it is because of my intimate knowledge of them that I know they are - well let's say misguided just doesn't cover it!

btw his youngest son is in my class now this year. Poor boy and his wife and other son.

Was he great Muslim hero?

I miss him. Truly. He was a good young man. What happened to him. I think he became psychologically sick. Is this Islam Bilquis?

Hassan.

************************************************** **

A translation of the first Declaration from Ameer ul Momineen

Allah subhanah says in the Qur'an; " Verily Allah defends those who believe (in him). Verily Allah does not love each betrayer denier. Permission has been granted for those being fought because they have been oppressed. Verily Allah is capable of supporting them. Those who have been exiled from their dwellings unrighteously except that they would say; Our lord is Allah. If it wasn't that Allah pressurising people, one against another, then Synagogues, Churches, Prayer Places and Mosques which Allah's name is abundantly revered, would have been brought down. Allah will definitely support those who support those who support him. Verily Allah is strong, exalted. Those whom, when we affix them on earth, establish the prayers, give Zakat, enjoin the right and forbid wrong and with Allah rests all affairs."

FROM: Ameer ul Momineen; Abu Abdullah Mohammad bin Ahmad bin Khalifah Al-Hashemi Al-Qurashi

TO: All Muslims

Peace be upon you the mercy of Allah and his blessings.

And so I praise Allah the high, the highest and I testify that there is no deity but Allah and that Mohammad is his slave and messenger, peace and mercy of Allah and his blessings be upon him.

And so, Al Imamah el Uthma (the great viceroyship of the believers) has been contracted to me at such a time in which the position of the Sultan (viceroy) has been left vacant and the rules of the Qur'an have been deactivated (abandoned); and in which the majority of residents of the earth have submitted to the laws imposed by the created (not the creator); and in which corruption and pollution has overwhelmed the land and the sea by the output of the hand of mankind. To the extent that the earth has been filled with oppression and injustice. But (now) by the giving of Allah and what comes from his giving, a group of those who believed and migrated and fought by their possessions and their selves in the path of Allah and of those who sheltered the immigrants and supported them and swore to stand for the religion and for regrouping of Al Ummah Al Muslimah (the assembly of people who submit to the creator and not created) back to the holding of the rope of Allah. Therefore they have given me their hands, appointing me Ameer for the believers and a khilafah by the protocols of the prophecy. Thereby I have become your governor, while I am not the best one from among you. Therefore, if I abide by Allah's rules, you support me and if I err, you correct me. Listen to my commands and obey them so that we may (all together) support the religion and that we may refill the earth with righteousness and justice as it is filled with oppression and injustice. It is the duty of every Muslim to care for my advices and orders and to broadcast them clearly among the Muslims and to publish them widely until they reach every Muslim on earth. And herewith are my orders and advices, Allah alone is sought;

1) I Ameer ul-Momineen order the muslims to denounce all governments and all ungodly ways of life, the United Nations and the Security Council and to denounce all presidents, kings and ameers of the Arab and non-Arab countries until they announce submittal to Allah.

2) It is required of all Muslims to cease supporting, and working for Al-Taghoot (those who run by the order of the created rather than the creator). They are required to boycott their (the Taghoots) offices, courts, police and armies. Whosoever does not boycott them after this announcement hereby becomes an outlaw condemned to death (any Muslim is hereby ordered to kill such persons).

3) It is required from all Muslims to stop paying taxes and contributions to the Taghoot and to the governments that prevent the law of Allah from application.

4) Beginning from the date of this declaration, all parties, movements, groups, religious establishments and schools of thought and charity organisations and such are hereby annulled and dissolved. Those who have established any of the above with good intentions, seeking the pleasure of Allah, are supposed to announce the ending of their missions and should declare attendance and obedience to me. Allah will enable us to do what is righteous.

5) I hereby order all the Muslims to join "Jamaat Al-Muslimeen" for those who cannot reach me should join the nearest Wali (representative) and or military camp wherever it is available.

6) I order all the Muslims to seek Allah and be patient. The land is Allah's, he inherits it to whom he wishes and the end is for the Lord-fearing. They are all therefore required to start arming and preparing for Jihaad in the path of Allah under my flag.

7) I further order those who want to but cannot join us not to weaken or surrender to the Taghoot and to support us as they are able since each one of us is at a pocket of Islam wherever he is. He may fight in the path of Allah in whatever he was made able and whatever he prepared.

8) All those oppressed men, women and children who are under the guardianship of the mushrikeen (those proscribe partners to Allah) should know that I am the appropriate guardian. So whoever is able to join us should do so and whoever is unable should be patient until I am able to unbind them. If any of you finds an opportunity to fight any of Allah's enemies he may do so and let him/her seek Allah's help.

9) In accordance with the order of Allah; "O you who believe fight those next to you of the unbelievers", and in accordance with the saying of the prophet (PBUH); "the courtyard of the house of Islam is in Sham". I therefore announce the raising of the flag of the Al-Furqan army (the army that divides the believers from the unbelievers) for the liberation of Bayt-Al-Maqdess (the holy house Jerusalem) from the hands of the Jews.

10) Following the prophet (pbuh) I have decided that the main flag be black and the divisionary flag be white.

11) Following the order of Allah I have therefore decided that the fighting should not be limited to Bait-Al-Maqdess but I should explode it - by the help of the One and only - to the entire earth so that there should be no confusion and the obedience be for Allah.

12) Whosoever stands in the way of the black flag and prevents it from Jihaad in the path of Allah, kill him whoever he may be.

13) To break the noses of the Taghoot I have decided to commission the first battalion of the Jaish-ul-Furqan to head at Bait-Al-Maqdess, to dispatch from Khurasan. The frontal squadron shall be known as "Kateebat-Al-Maut" (the squadron of death), the same shall be dispatched by the Wali of Khurasan, Abu Ayub Albarqawi.

14) It is required from all Muslims available in the lands through which the Kateebat-Al-Maut (pass) including the residents of Bait-Al-Maqdess to support this squadron and to supply it with whatever they can afford of monies, arms, and ammunition and food. All should raise the black flags. All should have good tidings from the prophecy of the messenger of Allah, peace and mercy of Allah and His blessings be upon him; "the later day will not come until the muslims fight the Jews, the muslims will kill them until the Jew hides behind the stone and the tree. The stone or the tree will say; "o Muslim, O slave of Allah, this Jew is hiding behind me, so come and kill him" except the tree of Gharqad, it is from the trees of the Jews" Therefore I order the Muslims of Bait-Al-Maqdess to burn and chop down this kind of tree.

15) I, Ameer ul Momineen, announce to all mankind that the negotiations of peace that have started and are ongoing between the Palestinians and the Jews, all of it, is cancelled and negated. The Palestinians are forbidden, from this day, from negotiating on behalf of or for this holy land, no one negotiates on it except Ameer ul Momineen. The only representative of the Muslims altogether is Ameer ul Momineen. I announce it clearly to the Jews that (they) should pay Jizyah (a tax imposed by Allah on those Jews and Christians who wish to live among the Muslims as protected aliens) and to open our path to the Holy House. I should be the ruler and they should be under my protection. Or they should accept the other choice. They shall not hear the other choice from me; they will see it by the permission of Allah. Jaish-ul-Furqan is coming; the coward's eyes shall have no sleep.

16) I order the Muslims to migrate to Allah in their good times and bad times and to seek his protection. To abandon guilt and sin and false testimony and usury. Whoever has any money at the usury dealing banks should rush to clean his money because Allah does not accept but clean money. And know all of you that Allah has ordered you to obey Al Ameer Al Atham (the general Ameer, another title of Ameer Al Momineen), except if he orders in disobedience of Allah. So any order that reaches you whether it is from me or forged on my behalf is null and void if it differs with the Qur'an or Sunnah at all. About my place of residence, it is at a trench of the trenches of Jihaad somewhere in Khurasan. I move from place to place and so my Walis and commanders. We will not dwell (in) the palaces. We will hold to the trenches until we liberate all the homes of Islam and save the last oppressed Muslim; until I take the creatures out of the slavery of one another to the slavery of creator from Him alone we seek aid.

Finally I remind mankind of the following saying of Allah, Subhanah "Allah has promised those who believed from amongst you and did the right deeds to give them viceroyship on the earth as he has given the viceroyship to those who did so before them and to fix their religion which he has accepted for them and to exchange them after fear, peace. They slave for me, never ascribe anything with me, and whoever denies after that are arrogant".

Our last prayer is praise for Allah, the Lord of all the worlds.

Ameer ul Momineen Abu Abd Allah Mohammed Bin Ahmed Al-Hashemi Al-Qurashi

This has, by the order of Ameer al Momineen, been written by : Abu Ayub Al-Barqawi the Wali of Khurasan.

Magicman
06-09-02, 09:26 PM
Read the 'Appalling Fraud' by the French bloke
That is one of the stupidest books ever written. His argument about how the damage to the Pentagon was smaller than that to the WTC and so it couldn't have been a plane is so easily defeated. Here are a few clues:

a) The Pentagon is not made of metal and glass. Its made of reinforced limestone and is built like a fortress.

b) The plane did not hit the Pentagon at 500mph like at the WTC. It had already crashed into the ground and went sliding in at ground level, causing minimal damage to the structure which was visible from the sky.

Like many conspiracy theorists, Mr. I Need Major Sales Right Now for my Stupid Book left out several key facts about the attack on the Pentagon to make his story more plausible.

Bilquis
06-09-02, 09:44 PM
'Hassan',

I don't care what you say. If you were really Muslim, you'd understand the importance of Jihad and wouldn't write what you just did. Even if somebody asked you to be a 'jihaadi' as you allege, you didn't go so what're you trippin' for?
As for leaving his wife an children in a 'kuffar' council flat etcs, BIG DEAL. The Kuffar were in Muslim countries for centuries, looting and expropriating their wealth, including in Morocco (the French) so who cares about them allowing a Muslim to live in crummy council accomodation?

I don't think the young Moroccan mujahid needs your pity 'Hassan'. Insha'Allah, if he went to fight for Islam and the protection of his Muslim brethren, he is a shaheed. He will dwell in Jannat Insha'Allah... and the shaheed as you know, never die (they eat and so forth, only you see them not)

See this is what I mean. These things convince me that your claims of being Muslim are insincere.

Btw, I think you may be Amir Ali, that other famous 'Muslim' on Ummah.

cyber-muslim
06-09-02, 09:51 PM
jeeeeeeeez ppl have way too much time on there hands!

u guys have alot of Q's, do you just sit at home and think of them, and then just think "oh yeah, i'll ask them on ummah.com forum"

Subhna'Allaah!

May Allaah fill us all with Hikmah, and answer all our question on day of judgement, Aameen

Bilquis
06-09-02, 09:54 PM
:p

Bilquis
06-09-02, 10:02 PM
"That is one of the stupidest books ever written. His argument about how the damage to the Pentagon was smaller than that to the WTC and so it couldn't have been a plane is so easily defeated. Here are a few clues:

a) The Pentagon is not made of metal and glass. Its made of reinforced limestone and is built like a fortress.

b) The plane did not hit the Pentagon at 500mph like at the WTC. It had already crashed into the ground and went sliding in at ground level, causing minimal damage to the structure which was visible from the sky.

Like many conspiracy theorists, Mr. I Need Major Sales Right Now for my Stupid Book left out several key facts about the attack on the Pentagon to make his story more plausible."- Magic Mushroom

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ah, what's the matter? :rolleyes:
Can't take a little criticism even from a fellow kuffar? Refuse to believe that not all of the Kuffar world buys your lies?
"Key facts"? Well I'm sure you were there observing all the facts that day almost a year ago (not)
Well Kudos to the good Frenchman for his expose. Alhamdulillah

Only, it's your country that makes some money out of everything. I hear many of your fellow Amreekans in NY are making a packet selling photos of the planes hitting and so forth. :p
Funny...you're always whingeing when it's other people

Peace
06-09-02, 10:14 PM
Originally posted by Bilquis
'Hassan',

I don't care what you say. If you were really Muslim <snip> These things convince me that your claims of being Muslim are insincere.

Btw, I think you may be Amir Ali, that other famous 'Muslim' on Ummah.


Thanks for your judgment upon me Bilquis - fortunately it is God who will judge me and not you.

So you agree with:

2) It is required of all Muslims to cease supporting, and working for Al-Taghoot (those who run by the order of the created rather than the creator). They are required to boycott their (the Taghoots) offices, courts, police and armies. Whosoever does not boycott them after this announcement hereby becomes an outlaw condemned to death (any Muslim is hereby ordered to kill such persons).

3) It is required from all Muslims to stop paying taxes and contributions to the Taghoot and to the governments that prevent the law of Allah from application.

4) Beginning from the date of this declaration, all parties, movements, groups, religious establishments and schools of thought and charity organisations and such are hereby annulled and dissolved. Those who have established any of the above with good intentions, seeking the pleasure of Allah, are supposed to announce the ending of their missions and should declare attendance and obedience to me. Allah will enable us to do what is righteous.

5) I hereby order all the Muslims to join "Jamaat Al-Muslimeen" for those who cannot reach me should join the nearest Wali (representative) and or military camp wherever it is available.

6) I order all the Muslims to seek Allah and be patient. The land is Allah's, he inherits it to whom he wishes and the end is for the Lord-fearing. They are all therefore required to start arming and preparing for Jihaad in the path of Allah under my flag.

12) Whosoever stands in the way of the black flag and prevents it from Jihaad in the path of Allah, kill him whoever he may be.


btw who is ameer ali - another poster? I'm afraid you have again misjudged me - but that seems to be what you are good at.

Hassan

lacadaza
06-09-02, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by cyber-muslim
jeeeeeeeez ppl have way too much time on there hands!

u guys have alot of Q's, do you just sit at home and think of them, and then just think "oh yeah, i'll ask them on ummah.com forum"

Subhna'Allaah!

May Allaah fill us all with Hikmah, and answer all our question on day of judgement, Aameen


AS-SALAM-U-'ALAIKUM cyber muslim, he will indeed :p

UnenlightenedOne
06-09-02, 10:55 PM
>>"Hassan, the Christians have the KKK, so we know the filth that extremism is capable of promoting well."

Aah, the Kaphir is finally showing the Yahudi fangs.
Like I'm really surprised... <<

Why am I not surprised that you are deluded in yet another supposition?

Perhaps because I failed to mention the Likud party? My statement was MEANT as WE CHRISTIANS have our extremist element as well as the Islamists. Hopefully most that read the statement got the gist of it.

Raven
06-09-02, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by cyber-muslim
jeeeeeeeez ppl have way too much time on there hands!

u guys have alot of Q's, do you just sit at home and think of them, and then just think "oh yeah, i'll ask them on ummah.com forum"

Subhna'Allaah!

May Allaah fill us all with Hikmah, and answer all our question on day of judgement, Aameen

No kidding. I think one of the questions asked about a guy's shoe size. What's next? "What is the average velocity of a swallow in mid-flight?"

Magicman
06-09-02, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by Bilquis
Can't take a little criticism even from a fellow kuffar? Refuse to believe that not all of the Kuffar world buys your lies?
"Key facts"? Well I'm sure you were there observing all the facts that day almost a year ago (not)
And the French man with a few birdseye photos of the Pentagon managed to come to a different conclusion from the few hundred people who actually witnessed the event. He must be clever.


I hear many of your fellow Amreekans in NY are making a packet selling photos of the planes hitting and so forth. :p
Funny...you're always whingeing when it's other people
Well guess again because almost everyone donated any footage or photos they had of the incident. Mr. Ima Stupid Author wrote the most sensationalist piece of trash he could think of to bring in the money. Hell, it came out less than two months after September 11th. I'd sure like to know how he managed to do indepth research on the topic and write a book in that amount of time.

And what a surprise, you believe every word of it because its exactly what you want to hear. That particular theory is dismantled here (http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm).

UnenlightenedOne
07-09-02, 12:10 AM
>>What is the average velocity of a swallow in mid-flight?"<<

Would that be an African or a European swallow?


Ni Ni Ni Ni Ni

Bilquis
07-09-02, 01:02 AM
"My statement was MEANT as WE CHRISTIANS have our extremist element as well as the Islamists. Hopefully most that read the statement got the gist of it."- KaphirGoyim

Oh, of course you did. :rolleyes:

Bilquis
07-09-02, 02:19 AM
"And the French man with a few birdseye photos of the Pentagon managed to come to a different conclusion from the few hundred people who actually witnessed the event. He must be clever.

Well guess again because almost everyone donated any footage or photos they had of the incident. Mr. Ima Stupid Author wrote the most sensationalist piece of trash he could think of to bring in the money. Hell, it came out less than two months after September 11th. I'd sure like to know how he managed to do indepth research on the topic and write a book in that amount of time.

And what a surprise, you believe every word of it because its exactly what you want to hear. That particular theory is dismantled here."- Magicman
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


Yes the French are very clever AND they have a CULTURE didn't you know!! :p

Yes, I believe the Frenchman would be more honest than you and other Amreekan Zionists no doubt about it.

As for it coming out after 2 months, many people including a minority of normal, sane Amreekans (which naturally rules out you & your team here) pointed out the contradictions and inconsistencies of the event within a few days of its occurence.

If Kuffar like yourselves could say straight off that it was Bin Laden on that very day (without proof, then as now) and could list the names of the so-called 19 'hijackers' within 3 days, why can't a more impartial non-American with a less jaundiced worldview, write a book after 2 months pointing out the contradictions and flaws?

And I don't care if the Pentagon is made of grass! Look at the questions that Abdul Haqq posted. You and your chums can't answer them so you try to laugh them off.

Why did ****a Bush sit in that school-room suppressing a grin and look like the guiltiest piece of trash I ever saw when he was told of the first plane hitting the Trade Centre?

Normal people would be aghast! Maybe their mouths would fall open or they'd say something to register the shock. He sheepishly continued as if nothing had happened. WHY did he carry on with the charade? Cos' he was a liar and cos' you did it yourselves.

And there are many other elements of BS surrounding the event.

We always hear how sophisticated your technology is, yet your air force/defence people and your federal aviation authority did jack___ in the considerable gap period between the first and second plane hitting. What happened to that bravado and all that much bragged about air supremacy?

Further, why would people who're purportedly 'fundamentalists' committed to their cause and seeking martyrdom, break their Islamic / ethical code to go and drink, fornicate etc. on their last night on God's earth? This defies logic.

For example, we're told that Mohammad Atta didn't shake the hand of a female lecturer in Hamburg University (when she congratulated him on an assignment) because she was a woman.

Yet he's supposed to be unable to resist the charms of STD-infested Amreekan tarts and strippers in some crappy bar along with his very religious comrades.

This is not the behaviour of even the most slack Muslim let alone the Wahhabi religious 'zealots' they were supposed to be.

This 'touch' of the Zionist script that is "9/11" is pure Jewhollywood. It's to say 'they were Muslim fundamentalists but they loved our lifestyle and women so much, they had to get a taste of the action before they died.' Bull.

This shows that the real people who did this know NOTHING about Muslims.

And how convenient that Atta left a 'suicide letter' and other documents in a car. For people who were allegedly 'sleepers,' they didn't do anything to hide what they were doing.

Even the contents of the letters were not those of a Muslim but came from a Kuffar mind. What pious Muslim would need to tell other pious Muslims about 'looking clean', having 'clean shoes' etc? This is second nature to practising Muslims so they don't need to be told about it. Cleanliness is half of one's religion. They are also told by 'Atta' that they are going to Paradise. SubhanAllah, as if a potential martyr would even need to be told such a thing. It sounded more like a pep talk being given by a Kuffar Amreekan football coach!

These are some of the reasons why it's all rubbish. There are so many holes in this "9/11" story, it puts a sieve to shame.
Other Muslims and I could go on and on about them. However, you've heard them all before but you pretend it's just not true or possible.

Well you are the nation that made up lies about the Spanish-Amreekan War, about Pearl Harbour, about the Gulf of Tonkin incident, about the USS Liberty case and a million other lies besides. So the long and short of it is: why should any Muslim believe YOU?

You are a nation of the Jews, for the Jews and by the Jews. You are simply safeguarding theirs and Israel's interest and the Islamic world is viewed as a threat to both. Simultaneously, you want to seize permanent control of all Muslim mineral wealth so that you can continue guzzling cheap Islamic oil for a dollar or whatever it is perpetually.

This 9/11 business is your pretext for killing these two birds with one stone.


Bilquis

Infidel
07-09-02, 02:31 AM
"And I don't care if the Pentagon is made of grass! Look at the questions that Abdul Haqq posted. You and your chums can't answer them so you try to laugh them off."

Did you actually, truly read through the list?

They are, in a word, laughable. The work of someone with way too much time on their hands, and an active imagination.

1/4 are totally random thoughts (Richard Reid's shoe size....what the heck is that supposed to tell you)

1/4 are out and out falsifications (Muslim web sites taken down by the government before 9/11.....really? can anyone name them? no?)

1/4 are based on kooky conspiracy theories

1/4 are valid questions. can you find them through the detritus?

Bilquis
07-09-02, 03:07 AM
What I believe or don't believe in is none of your business 'Hassanradwan'.

Suffice it to say that I don't share your world view where much of the Shari'ah is seen as out of date (Astaghfirullah) and where Muslims are responsible for this "9/11" business and are in denial just because you and your Kuffar mates say so.

You also want Muslims not to oppose occupation and bloodshed by fighting Jihad as Islam requires them to do. You question many of the essential precepts of the Deen and then you say 'don't judge me'!

Whilst it's undoubtedly true that Allah SWT is the best Judge and knows what's in man's breast, other Muslims can only judge you on the Internet by what you say. And what you say is extremely questionable. There is only one other 'Muslim' on this entire forum who does this and that is 'Amir Ali'.

If I'm best at 'misjudging' so be it. But what all your posts show me is that you are at worst a non-Muslim or at best, a munafiq.

I don't wish to be unkind but individuals like vous are sometimes more harmful to Muslims than the straight-up inimical kuffar.


Mwah mwah,


Bilquis

Bilquis
07-09-02, 03:58 AM
Yes I've read them all Mr Infidel and they don't sound 'kooky' to me. One or two of the questions may have been put humourously but that doesn't mean that the points raised aren't valid. These questions and flaws are too important to be dismissed. You people keep going on and on about this 'great wrong' that was done unto Amreeka, only there is much to suggest that this was an inside job.

Roke
07-09-02, 04:20 AM
The Zionists were behind the 9/11 attacks. The war on "terror" is really a Zionist war against Islam.

sfvalley
07-09-02, 04:52 AM
The Zionists were behind the 9/11 attacks. The war on "terror" is really a Zionist war against Islam.


Well, if that is correct, one thing is for sure: You are getting your teeth kicked in. Imagine that there are 1.2 billion people against oh say what 20 million. Maybe we are finding out on whose side God really is on. Roke, what a loser you are. We are not even fighting a war on Islam and we are still winning.

Abdul Haq
07-09-02, 05:04 AM
what are you winning?

UnenlightenedOne
07-09-02, 06:01 AM
>>Oh, of course you did. <<

Ok, shhhhh, our little secret :rolleyes: . I skipped the barmitzvah, but I can't fool you. It's all my fault you know, or my parents fault. Just because I am chosen and you are not is no reason to get all bent out of shape. I'll light a candle for you on my mehnorra, and break some bread on passover (the kind we make with 'special ingredients'). Good GOD:eek: , I'm kosher. Argghhh, my homeland, calling, must, settle..bagels, bagels....... Please don't tell ANYONE!!!!!!....please

Brought to you buy Universal Delusional Studios.:o

Abdul Haq
07-09-02, 06:10 AM
Originally posted by Infidel
[B

1/4 are valid questions. can you find them through the detritus? [/B]

ok infidel...deal with those since you only dealt with the others so far :)

Peace
07-09-02, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by Bilquis
What I believe or don't believe in is none of your business...

Why so coy all of a sudden Bilquis? That's OK, I know it is much easier to throw out consipracy theories than to say what you really believe.


Originally posted by Bilquis
you are at worst a non-Muslim or at best, a munafiq.... Mwah mwah

Oh it's useless trying to hide anything from you Bilquis! You are just too smart. Yes I am really a Mossad agent. They paid me to come on here and told me what to say. My real name is Seymour Kafirs and I'm a Ukranian exchange student - I need the money - I hope you understand.

Of course no Muslims would dare oppose your views Bilquis! So it's OK you can relax and feel better now in the sure knowledge that it is only another Munafiq and Kafir plot.

Hassan

Magicman
07-09-02, 11:25 AM
Originally posted by Bilquis
Yes, I believe the Frenchman would be more honest than you and other Amreekan Zionists no doubt about it.
Have you ever met the man? You don't even know his name, yet you consider him a shining beacon of intelligence and truth.


sane Amreekans (which naturally rules out you & your team here) pointed out the contradictions and inconsistencies of the event within a few days of its occurence.
They did? What contradictions and inconsistencies are they?


If Kuffar like yourselves could say straight off that it was Bin Laden on that very day (without proof, then as now) and could list the names of the so-called 19 'hijackers' within 3 days, why can't a more impartial non-American with a less jaundiced worldview, write a book after 2 months pointing out the contradictions and flaws?
There is a difference between going through a passenger manifest and pulling out names which are already on the terrorist watch list and writing a book. In an Al Qaeda statement, one of Bin Laden's aides said they were responsible (the same statement promising a July 4th broadcast by Bin Laden which never surfaced, because surprise surprise, the man is dead). Of course, this was conveniently ignored by some of the people on this forum.


And I don't care if the Pentagon is made of grass! Look at the questions that Abdul Haqq posted. You and your chums can't answer them so you try to laugh them off.
Way to dodge my post. Lets stay on the topic of the Pentagon and answer one of the question: "15. Why was no plane seen at the Pentagon?" A plane was seen at the Pentagon. By a couple of hundred people who said as much. Next.


Why did ****a Bush sit in that school-room suppressing a grin and look like the guiltiest piece of trash I ever saw when he was told of the first plane hitting the Trade Centre?
What has this got to do with the Pentagon? Its odd no-one else have ever mentioned what you interpreted as "suppressing a grin". If this really was a huge American masterplan, then please tell me, why did Bush decide to be infront of a camera when it happened?


What happened to that bravado and all that much bragged about air supremacy?
America has air supremacy where it counts - over any and all combat areas. There were only 14 armed jet fighters in the U.S on the morning of September 11th. As you can probably imagine, there wasn't any previous need to have an Aegis cruiser floating off the coast of NY.


Further, why would people who're purportedly 'fundamentalists' committed to their cause and seeking martyrdom, break their Islamic / ethical code to go and drink, fornicate etc. on their last night on God's earth? This defies logic.
So it isn't against their Islamic/ethical code to hijack a civilian airliner and fly it into a building? I think you'll find drinking was the least of their sins.


Yet he's supposed to be unable to resist the charms of STD-infested Amreekan tarts and strippers in some crappy bar along with his very religious comrades.
The brainwashed little zealot was about to kill himself. Can't say I blame him.


And how convenient that Atta left a 'suicide letter' and other documents in a car. For people who were allegedly 'sleepers,' they didn't do anything to hide what they were doing.
The point of a sleeper cell is not to be detected before the operation takes place. I don't think he cared that much about what happen afterwards.

By the way, did you even bother reading that link I posted, or did you just go on a rant straight away? That was certainly an interesting post. You went off the topic of the Pentagon almost immediately and into a speil about how America is run by the Jews.

Peace
07-09-02, 12:24 PM
There was a documentary on Channel 4 a couple od days ago about the Meyssan conspiracy theory and the guy didn't even 'research' his book properly, he never even left France. He got all interviews from the newspapers. The Channel 4 journalists interviewed some of the eye witnesses who Meyssan quoted in his book and they said he misquoted and selectively reported what they said. They said again that there was no doubt it was a plane.

Of course they were Mossad agents ;)

Hassan

Bilquis
07-09-02, 03:56 PM
Coy, shmoy ‘Hassanradwan'! If you really wanna know, I agree with much of what it said in that bayan. However, I don’t WISH to discuss it with further with you because I don’t think you’re of the Ummah so it's a waste of time. Also, I’m not in the habit of creating fitnah amongst the Muslimeen like you’ve been hell-bent on producing since you first posted here.

Btw, I express what I ‘really believe’ all the time… you haven’t been here very long so I can understand your ignorance.

And ‘Smart’ nothing. I’m just an average Muslimah and I don’t pretend to be clever but there are some things that are blatantly obvious and you don’t need to be intelligent to see them. I’ll leave all the smartness to you Mr. Teacher.

Moreover, I dunno what you’re gassin’ about with your ‘no Muslims would dare oppose your views’ malarky. The majority of the Muslims here are more knowledgeable than I in everything Masha'Allah. I’m also sure that many don’t share some of my views and I accept that because they are my Muslim brothers and sisters and I love them Fi Sabeelillah.
But I don’t accept your views and those of Amir Ali and if you don’t like it that’s just too bad. But you need to know that a Muslim does not ridicule and defame the character of another believing Muslim to the Kuffar. You don’t have better knowledge of Bin Laden and his character than the Muslims in Saudi, Afghanistan Pakistan and elsewhere in the Islamic world who know him, have fought alongside him and can vouch for his character. And Allah knows best. Likewise, you can’t judge the Muslim mujahids who went to fight for the Cause of Allah.

Note what The Creator ASWT says:

“Jihad (holy fighting in Allah’s cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know” (Al Baqarah, 2: 216)


I’d also say that you should bear in mind the following things which nullify Islam and the Shahada:


-Whoever is displeased with anything Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) has come with, even though he acts according to it, has commited KUFR (disbelief). (Example: a person who prays the five daily prayers but hates to perform it, or a woman who wears hijab but hates it, a person who proclaims Islam but criticises and questions aspects of it like Jihad, the Shari’ah…)

Allah (SWT) says:
“But no by your Lord, they can have no faith, until they make you (Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam) judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.” (Surah Nisa 4: 65)


-If a person believes that he can improve upon Islam by adding things to the Shari’ah (Laws of Allah SWT) or removing some aspects of it, then he becomes a Kafir. This is because Allah (SWT) sent the Message of Islam to His Prophet Muhammad (sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) for all of mankind in perfection and if anyone denies this then he contradicts the following Ayah in the Qur'an:
“This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen Islam as your religion.” (Surah 5 Al-Ma’idah, Ayah 3)


-Whoever ridicules or makes fun of anything in the Deen (religion) or mocks any reward or punishment in Islam, has become a Kaafir. The evidence for this is the saying of Allah (SWT):

“Say, was it Allah and His Messenger that you were mocking? Make no excuses; you have disbelieved after you had believed...” (Surah At-Taubah, 9: 65-66)


-Whoever supports and helps the mushrik (polytheist, disbeliever) against the Muslim is a Kafir because the enemy of Allah (SWT) is dearer to him than a Muslim who believes in Allah (SWT). The evidence for this is the saying of Allah (SWT):
“O you who believe! Take not for auliya (protectors, helpers, friends) disbelievers instead of believers. Do you wish to offer Allah a manifest proof against yourselves? (4:144)

Also:
“O you who believe! Take not as Auliya (supporters and helpers) your fathers and your brothers if they prefer disbelief to Belief. And whoever of you does so, then he is one of the Zalimun (wrongdoers).”
(9: 23)


I’ve said everything I had to say to you on this thread ‘Hassan’.



Bilquis


PS I doubt if your name’s Seymour Kafirs…more likely to be along the lines of Herschel GoldSilverDiamondSteinLiebstrom... ;)

UnenlightenedOne
07-09-02, 04:10 PM
God forbid some people have the same views of non-violence, religious and racial tolerance, as good old Amir.

It is counterproductive to argue the nuances of terror in this manner. It is disrespectful of the victims. That's my final word on this thread.

The people that bow to Bin Laden are not likely to cater to the words of the Kurf anyway. Now they lump anyone that argues against 9/11 terrorism Yahudi, even their own. Pretty sad.

Peace
07-09-02, 04:25 PM
ASA Bilquis,

I consider you my sister in Islam - regardless of what you think of me Bilquis and I have no animosity or anger towards you - believe me.

As for defaming Bin Laden's character, he has openly said himself, that he supported the 9/11 attacks which almost every scholar worldwide agrees was against Islam. You have been quick to judge me - but you don't see any problem here with Bin Laden's stance?

And you don't think saying I am a non-Muslim or a Munafiq falls into the category defaming our felow Muslims?


Originally posted by Bilquis
PS I doubt if your name’s Seymour Kafirs…more likely to be along the lines of Herschel GoldSilverDiamondSteinLiebstrom... ;)

Well at least you make me smile Bilquis :)

Hassan

Bilquis
07-09-02, 04:35 PM
MagicMushroom, you know, you really are full of it. You brought up that one thing about the Pentagon out of the 500 things that Abdul Haqq posted and you tell me I’ve gone off the topic!
Have been doing weed or something boy? And all you can muster up is what material the Pentagon is made up of? Totally pathetic. How's that me going off the topic? I wasn’t writing a post about the constitution / make up of the Pentagon. I was writing a general post of the contradictions and I was saying that many Kuffar also don’t believe the lies you tell. You’re trying to throw dust in people’s eyes by latching on to what the French fella supposedly said your spy/defence building was made up of [clutching at straws here]… then you daftly assume you’re winning some imaginary victory that never was.

I’ve already alluded to a few of the hundreds of flaws about the whole thing and your partial dissection of my post here, doesn’t make an iota of difference. Countless Muslims and non-Muslims on Ummah and elsewhere have pointed out over the last year the things that don’t add up… you expect the litany to be listed for the umpteenth time? No can do. Get off your derriere and check on Google and other search engines… I haven’t got the time to do it for stubborn, deluded patriots…there are many other thread besides this one believe it or not.

And what’re you doing here if you’re also not ranting? Pfah.
Did I look at your measly link? In a word: NO.
I only check the links of reliable and mostly non-Zionist people here and you're not one of those. :D

That's enough time wasted on you here Magicman...

Ta ta for now.

Bilquis
07-09-02, 04:53 PM
"Ok, shhhhh, our little secret . I skipped the barmitzvah, but I can't fool you. It's all my fault you know, or my parents fault. Just because I am chosen and you are not is no reason to get all bent out of shape. I'll light a candle for you on my mehnorra, and break some bread on passover (the kind we make with 'special ingredients'). Good GOD , I'm kosher. Argghhh, my homeland, calling, must, settle..bagels, bagels....... Please don't tell ANYONE!!!!!!....please" - Kaphirgoyim


Well bully for you for admitting it!

Firestarter
08-09-02, 05:04 PM
:p

Magicman
08-09-02, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by Bilquis
You brought up that one thing about the Pentagon out of the 500 things that Abdul Haqq posted and you tell me I’ve gone off the topic!
Feel free to pick a different question. Really, go ahead. Still, if I can so easily defeat one of the questions, it doesn't hold too much hope for the rest of them, does it?


I wasn’t writing a post about the constitution / make up of the Pentagon.
You mentioned how the French author was right, when the actual facts obviously prove otherwise. Believe it or not, the make up of a building has quite an impact on its strength. Mr. Tabloid Author's main point was the lack of visible damage when compared to the WTC. This is for a very good reason - one is made out of light metals and glass, the other isn't.


I was saying that many Kuffar also don’t believe the lies you tell.

So the American masterplan managed to make a plane and its passengers dissapear and set off a bomb or something at the Pentagon, instead of just crashing it like at the World Trade Centre. What sense does that make? Like most conspiracy theories, none at all.

Countless Muslims and non-Muslims on Ummah and elsewhere have pointed out over the last year the things that don’t add up
A few thousand people are right and everyone else is wrong, particularly the people who actually witnessed the event. Again, thats conspiracy theorist sense for you.


Get off your derriere and check on Google and other search engines
What would the search paramters for that be? "Stupid deluded conspiracy theorists who always have some alternate version of the truth"?


Did I look at your measly link? In a word: NO.
"I'm not clicking that link, because I don't want to read what it says!"

For everyone else, I'll post the link again: http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

Biliquis seems quite unwilling to read this for his/her own personal reasons. Within the French nutballs entire theory is dismantled, which as far as I can tell Biliquis doesn't actually know what this theory is other than that it disagrees with the widely accepted version of events at the Pentagon.

UnenlightenedOne
09-09-02, 02:48 AM
If we don't like what we see, we can always close our eye's until it goes away.

Mary Carol
09-09-04, 11:44 AM
If we don't like what we see, we can always close our eye's until it goes away.

That doesn't work for me.

Peace
09-09-04, 12:10 PM
Hey haven't seen this old thread for a couple of years - and it has one of my classic posts :D



ASA

It seems to me that it is disingenuous at the very least of us Muslims to go on trying to deny that Muslims were behind the 9/11 attacks, when we all know that there are only too many ready and willing to do such things.

Whether there were other forces at work, manipulating or facilitating the attacks is irrelevant. It doesn’t concern me - or surprise me - that there are non-Muslims whose interests are served by discrediting us or who would benefit from the events and repercussions of the 9/11 attacks.

What concerns me is that Muslims, who claim to hold the moral high ground, not just support such an attack on innocents but are champing at the bit to carry out more.

Any Muslim with even a small amount of experience with the various Muslim communities knows that there ARE very hard line ‘Jihaadis’ who even now call for further attacks on the Kuffar.

I can name several groups and individuals I have known and still know who support the 9/11 attacks and innocents as legitimate targets – although of course they would justify it by saying “They support the Kufr system, so they are not innocent”

This catchall can include just about anyone they don’t like – and it does! Even fellow Muslims have been declared Kafir, Munafiqs and agents of Shaytan.

So whom are we fooling when we deny this?

And why are we not focussing on ridding our community of such people instead of trying to constantly deflect the REAL issue with conspiracy theories.

Who cares if it is true that Mossad played some part in manipulating such an attack in order to further their ends!

This just in… Mossad doesn’t particularly like Muslims… Helloooooo! I already knew that!

But what concerns me is that we Muslims do support and are willing to carry out such attacks and use Islam to justify it.

I am sickened by this dishonesty and denial. How can we ever claim to be following true guidance and attain the help of God, when we go against one of the most fundamental teachings that to kill an innocent soul is like killing the whole of humanity???????????

That really is the Basic Question of 9/11

Hassan.

Ali_Khan
10-09-04, 04:13 AM
It seems to me that it is disingenuous at the very least of us Muslims to go on trying to deny that Muslims were behind the 9/11 attacks
Hassan please explain to me why you have such a big problem with people who beleive that Mossad/CIA was behind 911?

Peace
10-09-04, 06:33 AM
Hassan please explain to me why you have such a big problem with people who beleive that Mossad/CIA was behind 911?

Because Bin Laden had been threatening such acts - given Fatwas - and encouraged Muslims to attack American targets around the world.

The 19 Hijackers were Arab/Muslim men with extremist/militant links - many had trained in al-Qaida's Afghanistan camps.

Bin Laden and many other extremists sheikhs praised the attacks and hailed the 19 hijackers as martyrs!

Pretty straight-forward really!

Hassan

ps - I am willing to accept the 'possibility' that some of the secret services 'may' have known about it in advance or even 'facilitated' it in some way - to serve their own ends - I really don't know - but that doesn't change the fact that it was Muslims who were behind it.

Crono
10-09-04, 06:37 AM
i know it is bad to answer a question with a question...but ...

Why did Shaiton disobey Allah and get kicked out of jannah, thus createing Evil?










edit: i believe muslims are as far from 9/11 as earth is from the sun

Ali_Khan
10-09-04, 07:08 AM
Because Bin Laden had been threatening such acts - given Fatwas - and encouraged Muslims to attack American targets around the world.

The 19 Hijackers were Arab/Muslim men with extremist/militant links - many had trained in al-Qaida's Afghanistan camps.

Bin Laden and many other extremists sheikhs praised the attacks and hailed the 19 hijackers as martyrs!

Pretty straight-forward really!

Hassan

ps - I am willing to accept the 'possibility' that some of the secret services 'may' have known about it in advance or even 'facilitated' it in some way - to serve their own ends - I really don't know - but that doesn't change the fact that it was Muslims who were behind it.
you still have not answered the question. all you have said is you think muslims did it.

if all your doing is disagreeing over something that does not effect you why dont u just agree to disagree. instead you seem to have a fit anytime some muslim says 911 was a mossad job.

Mary Carol
11-09-04, 12:08 PM
It seems to me that it is disingenuous at the very least of us Muslims to go on trying to deny that Muslims were behind the 9/11 attacks, when we all know that there are only too many ready and willing to do such things...

Qassami seems to have no doubts whatsoever about just who is responsible and what religion they represent:

http://ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42860


What concerns me is that Muslims, who claim to hold the moral high ground, not just support such an attack on innocents but are champing at the bit to carry out more...

That disconnect bothers me also.


But what concerns me is that we Muslims do support and are willing to carry out such attacks and use Islam to justify it.

I am sickened by this dishonesty and denial. How can we ever claim to be following true guidance and attain the help of God, when we go against one of the most fundamental teachings that to kill an innocent soul is like killing the whole of humanity???????????

From what I have seen, those who support the deaths of innocents do so by simply redefining "innocent" to suit their agenda.


That really is the Basic Question of 9/11


Still a question three years later...inshallah we will come to see the day in our lifetime when the answer will be "Never again".

Huja Usman
11-09-04, 12:25 PM
Qassami seems to have no doubts whatsoever about just who is responsible and what religion they represent:

http://ummah.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42860


.
Actually Mariam, You seem to have created your a world that divides islam in 2, Those who love peace (meaning you) and those who hate it (i dont know who you mean). Everytime there is a thread about 9/11 and questioning what happend you seem hate it and want to blame it on usama.

When Beslan happend, And everyone said ofcourse it is not from Islam you came and said "this is sickening and muslims support it".

Funny isnt it. Do you want us to be child murderors?

Mary Carol
11-09-04, 12:56 PM
Huja, what a surprise...your break was all you'd hoped it to be inshallah?


Actually Mariam, You seem to have created your a world that divides islam in 2, Those who love peace (meaning you) and those who hate it (i dont know who you mean).

I have created no world Huja.

But I have recognized a division in the Muslims (and non-Muslims) between those who see the death of innocents as appalling, but only when those innocents look, think, act, or believe as they do.

Rather hypocritical wouldn't you say?

And as to who loves peace?

Protecting the innocent from harm seems like the epitome of peace, at least to me.


Everytime there is a thread about 9/11 and questioning what happend you seem hate it...

Innocent human beings were brutally murdered Huja.

Too many Muslims around the world condoned it, and applauded it...and still do today.

Doesn't that bother you?


and want to blame it on usama.

Where did I mention anyone named "Usama"?


When Beslan happend, And everyone said ofcourse it is not from Islam you came and said "this is sickening and muslims support it".

Many Muslims did condemn that atrocity, but did you miss out on the Muslims who condoned it? And spent their precious time here on Earth justifying it? And spent more ill-words denigrating those who refused to make an immoral distinction between the innocence of this child or that?
...both here at Ummah.com and in various articles and opinion pieces.


Funny isnt it.

It is you Huja, whom I find funny.

Funny that you so readily accuse me of...what is it...caring too much?

How inspiring it must be to you to find a Muslim who holds such high standards.


Do you want us to be child murderors?

Obviously not, Huja, obviously not.

AbuMubarak
11-09-04, 01:40 PM
mariam

there are good muslims and bad muslims

but the worse muslim is better than the best kafir

in Allahs sight and it should be in our sight

the recognition of the oneness of Allah is a mercy (tell faqir i said that) and that entitles the one who recognizes it to enter paradise

the one who refuses, no matter if its mother teresa, will be consigned to hell forever

this is the basis of brotherhood in islam

so when a muslim does something evil, we hate the deed, but we always recognize that is our brother

when a kafir tells you a muslim did something evil, you are NOT to accept it (part of that rope), you firstly and always speak positive or remain silent (again part of the brotherhood) because you do not know the truth of the matter and you will ALWAYS gain a sin for speaking ill of your brother, even if its true

when a muslim tells you a muslim has done some evil, you are to hear it and make dua to Allah for yourself and your brother

this is islam, not cnn, and we are to act as, and treat each other as muslims

that includes allowing islam to thoroughly enter every atom of your body, till you walk, talk, sit, eat and THINK, as a muslim

this goes for every muslim here

Mary Carol
11-09-04, 08:44 PM
mariam

there are good muslims and bad muslims

but the worse muslim is better than the best kafir

in Allahs sight and it should be in our sight

the recognition of the oneness of Allah is a mercy (tell faqir i said that) and that entitles the one who recognizes it to enter paradise

the one who refuses, no matter if its mother teresa, will be consigned to hell forever

this is the basis of brotherhood in islam

so when a muslim does something evil, we hate the deed, but we always recognize that is our brother

So far, you have me.


when a kafir tells you a muslim did something evil, you are NOT to accept it (part of that rope), you firstly and always speak positive or remain silent (again part of the brotherhood)

If that means that horrific evils such as what happened in Beslan are to be swept under the rug in the name of Brotherhood...I'll have no part of the positiveness or silence that you speak of.

The children are dead. They have no chance to speak...period. I'm only to happy and feel obligated to speak for them, and by speaking perhaps to prevent any more children, any child anywhere from being murdered.


because you do not know the truth of the matter and you will ALWAYS gain a sin for speaking ill of your brother, even if its true

I'll have to take my chances in gaining sins then.

May Allah (swt) forgive me.

btw, do you suppose Huja reads your posts?


when a muslim tells you a muslim has done some evil, you are to hear it and make dua to Allah for yourself and your brother

That I can do.


this is islam, not cnn, and we are to act as, and treat each other as muslims

As imperfect as I am, I can but try.


that includes allowing islam to thoroughly enter every atom of your body, till you walk, talk, sit, eat and THINK, as a muslim

this goes for every muslim here

Inshallah.

unbiased
12-09-04, 04:32 AM
there are good muslims and bad muslims

but the worse muslim is better than the best kafir


See, this is the sick way you try to make up for your own evil and the evils of your brothers and sisters.

You state something as fact which you cannot ever prove to be true.

You base your reasoning on an unproven delusion in order to state that even some s.cum that murders 350 children in a single day or blows up 2 airlines filled with civilians or flies 2 civilian airliners into civilian buildins are better than people who are not muslim.

It is simply a lie that you chose to believe in order to justify the evil that you support and that your brothers and sisters carry out.

It is really quite puzzling and scary to see a group of people deluded enough to justify their acts of evil on something that is completely unprovable. Crazy "mujahideend" so deluded in thought that they actually think that intentionally murdering 350 people in a single day is still not as bad as being a non-muslim. Essentially their "religion" has bipassed basic principals of human decency.

It is really some sort of psychopathology - apparently pretty wide spread in the culture/religion...is it not?

AbuMubarak
12-09-04, 04:34 AM
my puppy dog is up late

are you going to follow all of my posts?

i have quite a few today

better hurry before i post more

unbiased
12-09-04, 04:37 AM
my puppy dog is up late

are you going to follow all of my posts?

i have quite a few today

better hurry before i post more
Yeah,

I've been up looking at the memorial to the 3000 civilians that your friends killed in a single day.

Can you see it from the slums of east orange? I'm sure you can. But terrorist promoters such as yourself probably only laugh at it.

AbuMubarak
12-09-04, 04:40 AM
the slums of east orange?

you even know where i live?

puppies can always find their way home, huh?

BubbleGum
12-09-04, 04:49 AM
Stay cool and level, unbiased. (And U 2 BubbleGum.) This is a difficult day for all us patriots. Illucid is the level of hate a few muslims will go to to attack US. Such a thing as 9-11 would never have happened if the Ummah was strong.


"hoping for an allied Ummah"



~Bub

AbuMubarak
12-09-04, 04:54 AM
Let's be honest about what happened:

Horrible end to the Russian school siege: 250 dead !



UN: Horrible end in Iraq for up to 1 million children!


THE BESLAN SAVAGERY & Albright:





http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Human_Rights/KillingIraq.html (http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Human_Rights/KillingIraq.html)

Killing Iraq

by John Pilger

The Nation magazine, December 14, 1998


http://us.f127.mail.yahoo.com/ym/us/ShowLetter?box=Saved%20to%20Read&MsgId=4482_1889362_261_2170_7895_0_138063_25143_20 88891820&bodyPart=2&YY=90457&order=down&sort=date



Lesley Stahl: "We have heard that half a million children have died [as a result of sanctions against Iraq]. I mean, that is more children than died in Hiroshima.... Is the price worth it? "

Madeleine Albright: "...we think the price is worth it." - 60 Minutes, May 12, 1996

*

Although the Clinton Administration appears to have given Iraq a reprieve, it is itching to bomb Iraq. Bombing remains a soft option for a demonstration of US power at the end of a year when the Administration finally emerged from the distraction of the Lewinsky affair. The signals were clear in September when a UN Security Council resolution, engineered by the United States, "abandoned all discussion of sanctions against Iraq," in the words of one observer. It means that sanctions are to be maintained in perpetuity. Officially, the strategy is to bring Saddam Hussein to heel. Yet in the main categories of weapons inspection, Iraq has complied with the demands of the UN Special Commission. It has no long-range missiles. The International Atomic Energy Agency is satisfied Iraq has no nuclear program or nuclear arms capacity. Although there is concern over a potential to make nerve gas, this comes down to proving a negative; there is no reliable evidence.

Still, the people of Iraq must continue to suffer-and suffer in ways of which few outsiders are aware. Under rules drawn up by a UN sanctions committee in New York, which is in effect US-controlled, Iraq is prohibited from importing fertilizer and animal feed equipment. This has caused the collapse of much of the nation's agricultural production. Baby food and enriched powdered milk are banned, forcing mothers who are too malnourished to breast-feed to give their babies sugared water or sugared black tea. Most of these children have died; they are known as the "sugar babies."

In the hospitals, people are being operated on without anesthetic because vital equipment is blockaded, along with stethoscopes, X-ray equipment, scanners, water purifiers, bandages, sutures and medical swabs. A consignment of ambulances from France was stopped. Customs officers at London's Heathrow Airport recently confiscated antibiotics from a humanitarian delegation flying to Iraq and threatened to prosecute. Children's clothes, sanitary napkins, light bulbs, schoolbooks, paper, pencils, shoelaces-all are banned or have been lost in a cynical delaying process. The Austrian former chairman of the sanctions committee, Peter Hohenfellner, has admitted, "We are not inclined to take a more flexible view to all these goods [because] we want to maintain the pressure on Iraq." A Jordanian consignment of shroud material for the dead was vetoed by the United States and Britain.

"We will not be intimidated or pushed off the world stage," said Secretary of State Madeleine Albright in August, "by people who do not like what we stand for, and that is, freedom, democracy and the fight against disease, poverty and terrorism." The irony of her words is bleak indeed; for, the threat of bombing aside, her government is engaged in a massive act of terrorism in Iraq in what amounts to a war on the civilian population, mostly children, in breach of both the Geneva Convention and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Anyone doubting the scale of this terrorism should read British historian Geoff Simons's scholarly and damning book, The Scourging of Iraq: Sanctions, Law and Natural Justice. Eight years of sanctions have killed 2 million Iraqis, writes Simons, including perhaps as many as a million children. That is the child population of a medium-sized American city. The Food and Agricultural Organization has estimated 560,000 deaths based on extrapolations, according to The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. The Iraqi Health Ministry's figure is 1,211,285 children, calculated in August 1997. It will be considerably higher now.

In a letter to the UN Security Council, former US Attorney General Ramsey Clark, who has led a commission of inquiry in Iraq since 1991, wrote that most deaths were preventable by the medicines and equipment denied Iraq. "They are dying," he wrote, "from wasting or emaciation which has reached 12 percent of all children, stunted growth which affects 28 percent, diarrhea, dehydration from bad water or food...common communicable diseases preventable by vaccinations.... There are no deaths crueler than these." As for humanitarian exemptions to sanctions, writes Simons, "these are for public relations. Sanctions are designed to kill. A doctor might as well call for the humane implementation of torture."

The continuing American obsession with Iraq has many undeclared aims; one is the general war against stereotypes of Islamic violence. In fact, not only have Muslims been responsible for only a tiny proportion of deaths caused by terrorism but in recent years it is they who have been the greatest sufferers from state terrorism. Another is the more immediate practical need to protect Saudi oil prices, and the Saudi economy, from the competition of cheaper Iraqi oil. Sanctions do that job nicely. But sanctions also strengthen Saddam Hussein, as the Kurds and Shiites, his bitter opponents, repeatedly point out. Like bombing, the aim of sanctions may simply be Washington's need to demonstrate its rampant power in uncertain economic times; that, after all, is the impulse of enduring imperialism in whatever guise.

"Few of us," wrote Arthur Miller, "can easily surrender our belief that society must somehow make sense. The thought that the State has lost its mind and is punishing so many innocent people is intolerable. And the evidence has to be internally denied." Sanctions should be lifted immediately. They are simply a crime against humanity.



John Pilger, journalist and filmmaker, reports on the Middle East.

sfvalley
12-09-04, 04:58 AM
mariam

there are good muslims and bad muslims

but the worse muslim is better than the best kafir

in Allahs sight and it should be in our sight

the recognition of the oneness of Allah is a mercy (tell faqir i said that) and that entitles the one who recognizes it to enter paradise

the one who refuses, no matter if its mother teresa, will be consigned to hell forever

this is the basis of brotherhood in islam

so when a muslim does something evil, we hate the deed, but we always recognize that is our brother

when a kafir tells you a muslim did something evil, you are NOT to accept it (part of that rope), you firstly and always speak positive or remain silent (again part of the brotherhood) because you do not know the truth of the matter and you will ALWAYS gain a sin for speaking ill of your brother, even if its true

when a muslim tells you a muslim has done some evil, you are to hear it and make dua to Allah for yourself and your brother

this is islam, not cnn, and we are to act as, and treat each other as muslims

that includes allowing islam to thoroughly enter every atom of your body, till you walk, talk, sit, eat and THINK, as a muslim

this goes for every muslim here

that is the goofiest statement on here. God has made everyone on earth and desires for us to desire him and he hates sin from whoever sins and displeases him. If you should somehow think that muslims are chosen or whatever you think and they commit evil acts knowing they are evil (or are stupid enough to be duped into doing acts like this), Ie this suicide martyrdom while commiting murder type of stuff, and that God would not be more greatly displeased with knowing they were given the truth and decided to do the devil's work then it is sick sick mindset to think that way.

AbuMubarak
12-09-04, 05:38 AM
What they say about Islam ?







The Islam that was revealed to Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is the continuation and culmination of all the preceding revealed religions and hence it is for all times and all peoples. This status of Islam is sustained by glaring facts.



Firstly, there is no other revealed book extant in the same form and content as it was revealed.



Secondly, no other revealed religion has any convincing claim to provide guidance in all walks of human life for all times. But Islam addresses humanity at large and offers basic guidance regarding all human problems.



Moreover, it has withstood the test of fourteen hundred years and has all the potentialities of establishing an ideal society as it did under the leadership of the last Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)



It was a miracle that Prophet Muhammad could bring even his toughest enemies to the fold of Islam without adequate material resources. Worshippers of idols, blind followers of the ways of forefathers, promoters of tribal feuds, abusers of human dignity and blood, became the most disciplined nation under the guidance of Islam and its Prophet. Islam opened before them vistas of spiritual heights and human dignity by declaring righteousness as the sole criterion of merit and honor. Islam shaped their social, cultural, moral and commercial life with basic laws and principles which are in conformity with human nature and hence applicable in all times as human nature does not change.



It is so unfortunate that the Christian West instead of sincerely trying to understand the phenomenal success of Islam during its earlier time, considered it as a rival religion. During the centuries of the Crusades this trend gained much force and impetus and huge amount of literature was produced to tarnish the image of Islam. But Islam has begun to unfold its genuineness to the modem scholars whose bold and objective observations on Islam belie all the charges levelled against it by the so-called unbiased Orientalist.



Here we furnish some observations on Islam by great and acknowledged non-Muslim scholars of modern time. Truth needs no advocates to plead on its behalf, but the prolonged malicious propaganda against Islam has created great confusion even in the minds of free and objective thinkers.



We hope that the following observations would contribute to initiating an objective evaluation of Islam



================================================== ====================



It (Islam) replaced monkish ness by manliness. It gives hope to the slave, brotherhood to mankind, and recognition of the fundamental facts of human nature.



Canon Taylor,

Paper read before the Church Congress at Walverhamton, Oct. 7, 887,

Quoted by Amold in The Preaching of Islam, p.p. 71-72





Sense of justice is one of the most wonderful ideals of Islam, because as I read the Quran I find those dynamic principle of life, not mystic but practical ethics for the daily conduct of life suited to the whole world.



Sarojini Naidu

Lectures on "The Ideals of Islam"

see Speeches and Writings of Sarojini Naidu, Madras, 1918, p. 167





History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantasticlly absurd myths that historians have ever repeated



De Lacy O'Leary

Islam at the Crossroads, London, 1923 p. 8





I have always held the religion of Muhammad in high estimation because of its wonderful vitality. It is the only religion which appears to me to possess that assimilating capacity to the changing phase of existence which can make itself appeal to every age. I have studied him - the wonderful man and in my opinion far from being an anti-Christ, he must be called the Saviour of Humanity. I believe that if a man like him were to assume the dictatorship of the modern world, he would succeed in solving its problems in a way that would bring it the much needed peace and happiness: I have prophesied about the faith of Muhammad that it would be acceptable to the Europe of tomorrow as it is beginning to be acceptable to the Europe of today.



G. B. Shaw,

The Genuine Islam, Vol. 1, No. 81936





The extinction of race consciousness as between Muslims is one of the outstanding achievements of Islam and in the contemporary world there is, as it happens, a crying need for the propagation of this Islamic virtue.



A.J. Toynbee,

Civilization on Trial, New York, 1984, p. 205





The rise of Islam is perhaps the most amazing event in human history. Springing from a land and a people like previously negligible, Islam spread within a century over half the earth, shattering great empires, overthrowing long established religions, remoulding the souls of races, and building up a whole new world - world of Islam.



The closer we examine this development the more extraordinary does it appear. The other great religions won their way slowly, by painful struggle and finally triumphed with the aid of powerful monarchs converted to the new faith. Christianity had its Constantine, Budhism its Asoka, and Zoroastrianism its Cyrus, each lending to his chosen cult the mighty force of secular authority, Not so Islam. Arising in a desert land sparsely inhabited by a nomad race previously undistinguished in human annals. Islam sallied forth on its great adventure with the slenderest human backing and against the heaviest material odds. Yet Islam triumphed with seemingly miraculous ease, and a couple of generations saw the Fiery Crescent borne victorious from the Pyrenees to the Himalayas and from the deserts of Central Africa.



A.M.L.Stoddard,

quoted in Islam - the religion of all Prophets,

Begum Bawani Waqf, Karachi, Pakistan p.56





Islam is a religion that is essentially rationalistic in the widest sense of this term considered etymologically and historically. The definition of rationalism as a system that bases religious beliefs on principles furnished by the reason applies to it exactly.. It cannot be denied that many doctrines and systems of theology and also many superstitions, from the worship of saints to the use of rosaries and amulets, have become grafted on the main trunk of Muslim creed.



But in spite of the rich development, in every sense of the term, of the teachings of the Prophet, the Quran has invariably kept its place as the fundamental starting point, and the dogma of unity of God has always been proclaimed therein with a grandeur, a majesty, an invariable purity and with a note of sure conviction, which it is hard to find surpassed outside the pale of Islam.



This fidelity to the fundamental dogma of the religion, the elemental simplicity of the formula in which it is enunciated, the proof that it gains ftom the fervid conviction of the missionaries who propagate it, are so many causes to explain the success of Muhammadan missionary efforts. A creed so precise, so stripped of all theological complexities and consequently so accessible to the ordinary understanding might be expected to possess and does indeed possess a marvellous power of winning its way into the consciences of men.



Edward Montet,

"La Propaganda Chretienne et ses Adversaries Musulmans" Paris 1890,

quoted by T. W. Amold in The Preaching of Islam,London 1913, pp. 413-414





I am not a Muslim in the usual sense, though I hope I am a "Muslim" as "one surrendered to God", but I believe that embedded in the Quran and other expressions of the Islamic vision are vast stories of divine truth from which I and other occidentals have still much to learn, and Islam is certainly a strong contender for the suppling of the basic framework for the one religion of the future.



W. Montgomery Watt,

Islam and Christianity Today London 1983, p. IX




* * * ** * * ** * * ** * * ** * * ** * * ** * * ** * * *



Source : http://www.4newmuslims.org/islam.htm

Mary Carol
12-09-04, 10:32 AM
Do you want us to be child murderors?

Not I, Huja.

And not the hundreds of thousands of Muslims who took the time this weekend to reflect and mourn with their brothers and sisters, and humanity.

CAIR-Seattle 9/11 Interfaith Gathering

CAIR-Seattle, Imam Mohamad Joban, and Together We Build, invite you and your families to attend a 9/11 Interfaith Reflection Service: Three Years and a World Apart: Reflections on how far we’ve come and where we are going.

Date: Saturday 9-11-04

Place: The Islamic School of Seattle, 720 25th Ave Seattle Washington, 98122

Time: Arrive 6:30PM-Service starts 7:00PM and reception over by 8:30PM

Refreshments: Light Refreshments will be served

Attire: Dress as you would for your regular weekly Service at your congregation

Contact: Samia 206-409-3407, Michaela 206-321-5769 or email Info@Cair-Seattle.org

South Bay Islamic Association: United as One - Three Years Later
WHAT: 9/11 Candlelight Walk for Peace

On the third anniversary of September 11, 2001, join us in a Candlelight
Walk for Peace from Japantown to the South Bay Islamic Association in
San Jose. Light a candle in memory of almost three thousand civilians
who perished on that day and the tens of thousands of civilians as well
as soldiers who have died since then and continue to die in Iraq and
Afghanistan.

WHEN: Saturday, September 11, 2004
Program 6:30 pm
Start: San Jose Buddhist Church, 640 North 5th Street
Walk 7:30 pm
Program 8:15 pm - South Bay Islamic Association, 325 North 3rd Street
Refreshments 8:30 pm

WHERE: From San Jose Japantown to the South Bay Islamic Association

Sponsored by: CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations), JACL
(Japanese American Citizens League-San Jose), MCA (Muslim Community
Association), NOC (Nihonmachi Outreach Committee), and SBIA (South Bay
Islamic Association)

Endorsed by: American Muslim Voice, Committee for Justice and
Accountability, Stephen Fujita, Richard Konda, Mary Jo Kubota-Arcarese,
Kate Motoyama, Peninsula Peace and Justice Center, South Bay Labor for
Peace and Justice, South Bay Mobilization, United for Peace and Justice,
Women's International League for Peace and Freedom - San Jose.

For more information: Call 408-947-9389 or visit online at www.sbia.net

CAIR-OHIO: Cincinnati Interfaith Community Gathers to Pray for Peace

The third annual Cincinnati Interfaith Peace Memorial Vigil will begin on
the evening of September 10, 2004 at a local mosque. The event is being
co-sponsored by St. John's Unitarian Universalist Church, the Council on
American-Islamic Relations, Islamic Association of Cincinnati, Clifton
United Methodist Church, Northside Peacemakers, St. Monica-St. George
Parish, Wesley Foundation, and Peace Village.

The vigil will be a time to engage in silent prayer and share post 9-11
experiences. The event will continue at Clifton United Methodist Church for
an all night prayer vigil.

On the morning of September 11 the peace vigil will continue with an
Interfaith Walk beginning at the mosque, and traveling up the main street
in the area, pausing at religious institutions, the firehouse, and a park,
on the way and ending at the University of Cincinnati where members of the
community and sponsoring institutions will address those gathered.

Participants have also been asked to bring canned goods to benefit the
FreeStore Food Bank. This event is one of more than 20 events taking place
in the greater Cincinnati community.

For more information, contact: Sr. Karen J. Dabdoub of CAIR-OH, Cincinnati
office at 513-281-8200


Muims Join Interfaith Community to Mourn Victims of 9/11

The Interfaith Communities United for Justice and Peace (ICUJP), the
Violence Prevention Coalition of Greater Los Angeles, the Muslim Public
Affairs Council and countless other co-sponsors will demonstrate commitment
to our city, our country and our world by joining across faith, community
and generational lines.

Two peace marches, each with an individual message tied into the overall
theme of the connection between domestic violence and international
violence, will converge in MacArthur Park in Los Angeles for a major march
and rally. Among the speakers are MPAC's Senior Advisor Dr. Maher Hathout,
Rev. George Regis, and Rev. Ed Bacon.

Local American Muslims will meet at the Islamic Center of Southern
California at 9:30 a.m. and will join the march at 10 a.m. at the Emmanuel
Presbyterian Church (3300 Wilshire Blvd., Los Angeles).

WHEN: Saturday, September 11, 2004, 10:00 am - 2:00 pm
WHERE: MacArthur Park in Los Angeles (7th and Parkview)
For more information and march routes: MPAC - (213) 383-3443

ICUJP - (626) 683-9004 www.icujp.org

Open House and 9/11Memorial in Frisco Planned

All are invited to attend the Frisco Multi-Faith Open House & 911 Memorial

on Saturday, September 11th, 7:30 PM - 9:30 PM, at the Frisco Chamber of

Commerce at 6843 Main Street, Frisco, TX.

For more information visit:

http://www.friscomultifaith.org

Mary Carol
12-09-04, 10:34 AM
Some archival statements that some might have missed:

Muslim Condemnations Of The September 11 Attacks

http://www.cair-net.org/html/911statements.html

Mary Carol
12-09-04, 08:57 PM
After Grief, The Fear We Won't Admit

By Robin Wright

Sunday, September 12, 2004

Psychologists say the most intense period of mourning lasts three years. Since Sept. 11, 2001, Americans have indeed passed through several stages of grief, from disbelief to anger to a degree of acceptance. Yet, there's still a gnawing fear in our bellies that prevents full recovery. It's a fear that extends, I believe, well beyond Osama bin Laden and the prospects of another attack, and centers instead on our relationship with Islam itself.

Once familiar to most Americans mainly from seventh grade social studies, Islam has now become synonymous in the minds of many with the biggest post-Cold War threat. Even as we struggle to understand it, we're afraid of it. And because of that fear, we're drawing a Green Curtain around the Muslim world, creating an enduring divide.

Figuring out Islam's role in the 21st century is an existential challenge, but one many of us are emotionally unprepared to face. We pretend that we're not prejudiced, that we understand that most Muslims don't support the horrific bloodshed of bin Ladenism. Yet we still view 1.2 billion Muslim people spread throughout 53 countries as a threatening monolith. As long as we make that mistake, America and its allies won't feel safe, no matter how many billions of dollars are poured into security precautions.

Aside from the vital mission of tracking down bin Ladenists, military muscle is not always an effective instrument for moving forward. Nor are tepid diplomatic initiatives aimed at coaxing authoritarian governments into adopting change at a pace and in a manner that they control. There's another strategy that's gaining favor among Mideast experts: Bring Islamic movements and groups into the political process. Give Islamist parties new political space -- wide open space -- to absorb passions and sap anger.

That means accepting, even embracing, the idea that Islam is not the problem, but the way out of a political predicament that has been building quietly for decades. It means not only supporting nationalists, liberals and nascent democrats already on our side in the quest to transform the Middle East but also encouraging Islamists and their parties to participate. Basically, it means differentiating between Islamists and jihadists, and accepting anyone willing to work within a system to change it rather than work from outside to destroy it.

"It's hard to imagine political evolution in the next 20 years that does not include the Islamists," says Ellen Laipson, president of the Stimson Center, a Washington think tank that studies international security issues. "They have established legitimacy and a following and you won't make them disappear overnight by supporting the activities of a small elite of secular modernists. . . . You have to imagine a political space that has both."

Mideast scholars say it's too late to do anything less. The alternative is alienating even more Muslims by excluding them. And alienation -- from closed political systems and corrupt economies -- is what originally drove many Muslims to seek refuge in their mosques.

Including Islamists in government is an uncomfortable idea for those of us in secular societies. It summons up haunting images of Iranian clerics and American hostages, oppressed women and antiquated laws. That's why for years, U.S. governments have accepted Algeria's military, which voided free elections won by Islamic parties, and Hosni Mubarak's suppression of Egypt's Muslim groups. That's shortsighted because perpetuating the status quo will be worse. Now that Islamists have moved from the fringe to the center of political activity, a trend that has accelerated since the U.S. invasion of Iraq, they can no longer be excluded.

We have to think outside the prism of the war on terrorism. "Even as it wages a resolute campaign against international terrorism, America should not believe that it is engaged in a fight to the finish with radical Islam," Robert Hutchings, chairman of the National Intelligence Council, wrote in a recent issue of Foreign Policy magazine. "This conflict is not a clash of civilizations, but rather a defense of our shared humanity and a search for common ground, however implausible that may seem now."

One of the hopeful signs on this third anniversary of 9/11 is the way Americans are emerging from their grief to discuss a more creative course for the future and to more effectively answer the lingering question: What can America do? A growing number of voices on both the right and the left have been emboldened to shape proposals in a broader context.

The United States has tipped its hat to political change with initiatives to promote democracy. As President Bush said in a June speech in Istanbul, "Democratic societies should welcome, not fear, the participation of the faithful."

Yet in practice, the United States still veers away from Islamists. In Iraq, which Washington seeks to turn into a model for the region, U.N. and U.S. envoys deliberately picked politicians mainly from secular parties to assume power after the formal end of the U.S.-led occupation. Despite strong support in opinion polls, Islamist parties were marginalized. Analysts now predict they'll make a comeback in next year's elections and the United States would be wise not to try to prevent it.

"Political debate must encompass Islam if the debate is to be meaningful. Exclusion of the Islamic factor in Arab politics will simply be one-sided and unrealistic in its exclusion of the single greatest force within politics," writes Graham Fuller, a former senior intelligence analyst, in a paper released this month by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. The same applies to the wider Islamic world that constitutes 18 percent of the world's people.

In the race to capture the imagination of the vast, alienated middle, hard-line groups need to be operating under the same legal umbrella as more moderate groups -- or they will try to lure the faithful through other means. "It's hard to hand over individual authority to people who are illiberal. What you have to realize is that the objective is to defeat bin Ladenism and you have to start the evolution. Moderate Muslims are not the answer. Shiite clerics and Sunni fundamentalists are our salvation from future 9/11s," says Reuel Marc Gerecht, a Middle East expert and senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute.

Transitions away from authoritarian regimes may be messier and more volatile than political transformations elsewhere over the past quarter century. But "Let it roll," Gerecht advises. "Don't walk away. It's part of the process. It's trying to ensure the system is sufficiently open that fundamentalists burn themselves out. You have to rob bin Ladenism of that virulent elixir. If we don't go in that direction, we know all other roads go back to 9/11."

"You want in a Machiavellian way to have fundamentalists do the dirty work," he says. "You want them to take care of the people who slaughtered the children . The only way to do that is to have them compete in the political system. It may come off the rails for a while in some places, but even if it does, you will be better off. You don't want fundamentalists to take states by coups d'etat."

The premise behind the new ideas is that activists inspired or protected by religion have stood in for jailed or exiled secular opposition figures in many societies. "Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God," Benjamin Franklin once said. And more recently, liberation theologians in Latin America, Jewish refuseniks in the Soviet Union, South Africa's Anglican Archbishop Desmond Tutu and Catholic priests in Poland and the Philippines have played pivotal roles in political transformations.

"Conservative and even fundamentalist views of religion are manageable in a plural environment, as shown by a host of Protestant, Catholic and Jewish cases," wrote French scholar Olivier Roy in the new anthology "A Practical Guide to Winning the War on Terrorism." "A pluralist approach allows civil society to reach the cadres of youth who could be ideal targets for radicals and neo-fundamentalist groups."

Attempts to control the pace of change or choose the participants in the political process could invite an even deeper backlash than we face now. America cannot want less for Muslim countries than it wants for the rest of the world. And Muslims must not feel they are bystanders. "In the end, you have to treat Muslims as adults. They have to become responsible for their own fate," says Gerecht.

Based on conversations with Mideast experts, it appears that in the meantime, the United States could do three things. First, hold a genuine two-way dialogue. For all the hand-wringing about ending hatreds, that essential element is missing.

In a speech at the U.S. Institute of Peace last month, national security adviser Condoleezza Rice said that the United States must do more with the Islamic world to dispel "destructive myths" about America and to support "voices of moderation." The most striking thing about the speech was that she gave it to an American audience. Asked why no senior U.S. official had given a similar speech in any of the five largest Muslim countries in the three years since Sept. 11, she replied, "That's a good question. Maybe we should."

Dialogue must not just engage people listed in the local U.S. embassy's Rolodex. We need to listen to the bad guys too to understand where the fissures -- and opportunities -- might be.

"Even the hard-core jihadis are having big debates about who exactly the enemy is and . . . about their tactics," says Princeton University Mideast expert Michael Doran, who gets up early each morning to research Islamist and jihadi Web sites. When U.S. contractor Paul Johnson was beheaded in Saudi Arabia "some said it was wrong. Others said, 'Our violence makes us look bad.' One of the most important ideologues, Abu Baseer, a cleric who was an Afghan jihadist, said 'Westerners in our society have protection.' The radicals countered that an apostate state -- Saudi Arabia -- can't grant immunity. But Baseer said, 'That's not right, we haven't thrown traditions out.' Three years after Sept. 11 . . . the debate among them is totally unknown."

A second course of U.S. action would be to use economic tools. Several Muslim countries, including Algeria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Libya, Iran and Iraq, are seeking membership in the World Trade Organization. The United States could use WTO membership to induce change and force countries to embrace the rule of law.

Finally, we can embrace our own Islamic identity. Islam, the fastest-growing religion in the United States, is expected to become the second-largest faith in six years. Yet Muslims remain on the fringe. Just ask women who cover their heads or men with beards waiting in the boarding areas of airports.

Immediately after 9/11, Bush visited the Islamic Center in Washington and said Islam was not the enemy. This is a noble sentiment, but Muslims must also become part of the mainstream -- a challenge faced throughout the West. For Europeans, the most important battle for Muslim hearts and minds over the next decade will not be fought in the Middle East but in European cities where the numbers of Muslims are growing, as Giles Kepel, a French expert on Islam, says in his new book "The War for Muslim Minds: Islam and the West." "If European societies are able to integrate these Muslim populations . . . this new generation of Muslims may become the Islamic vanguard of the next decade," he writes.

The unspoken undercurrent behind our failure to do more over the past three years is what former national security adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski calls "a fear that periodically verges on panic that is in itself blind." As we look beyond our grief, we must also get beyond our prejudice and fear.

[i]Robin Wright covers diplomacy for The Post and is the author of "Sacred Rage: The Wrath of Militant Islam" (Simon & Schuster).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A13390-2004Sep11?language=printer